Episode 4: Casual Ableism talks accessible travel with Wheely Braw

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Hi. Hi, Laura.

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How are you?

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I’m good, thank you. How are you?

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Good, thanks.

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Thank you for joining today.

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It’s really great to to chat to you.

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And I’m really keen for this episode

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to thank you so much for reaching out and wanting to come on the podcast.

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Yeah, thanks for having me.

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It’s really good to talk about this stuff.

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Um, yeah, it’s a really important topic.

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I think the fact that what you’re doing with your blog

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and everything is just so, so great.

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And I think that it’s something that, you know, is for all of us all to travel.

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All of us want to go places.

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And I think that it’s just really good to highlight the positives as well.

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As, you know, not just about the business

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of the industry, but also the positives of places

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that are doing it right and of ways that people are actually

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you know, people actually are wanting to make that their venue accessible.

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So thank you.

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So I you do a bit of I would like podcast introductions,

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Welcome,

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Helen Lear-Grant from ‘Wheely Braw’

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Thank you so much for joining us today.

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Can you introduce yourself a bit. Tell us

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who you are, what you do and what inspired you

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to start your blog?

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Well, as you said, I’m Helen Lear-Grant

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and I have a blog called ‘Wheely Braw’

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I also do some content creation on Instagram.

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And I live in Scotland and I’m originally from England,

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moved up here ten years ago and actually fell in love with it

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and shortly after I became disabled

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and I, I love traveling.

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It’s something that I’ve always done

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and I missed it and really wanted to get back to it.

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So when my wife had a birthday coming up,

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we thought, Let’s go to the Outer Hebrides to celebrate.

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So yeah, let’s pick one of the most remote places in Scotland

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and just and try that.

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And after weeks of

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phone calls and emails and, you know, scrolling through websites,

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trying to find accessibility information and coming up with not a lot,

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I just threw my hands up in the air and said, let’s just go.

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Let’s just go and see what it’s like

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and why don’t we film it for a laugh and see what happens?

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I think thinking that we feel

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that we’d look at it ourselves, have a giggle, and not do anything with it.

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But I’ve popped up on YouTube and shortly afterwards

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got some emails from people saying, Thank you so much.

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You know,

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I was planning on going to the Hebrides for my honeymoon, but didn’t know if it was possible.

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Now I know it is.

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And when you hear things like that, you think,

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okay, it’s not just me who needs this.

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It’s it’s other the people.

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So I started blogging and making YouTube videos,

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and then the Instagram stuff came along shortly afterwards.

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That’s really interesting and it’s actually, those experiences when you do

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share something that you think only of yourself and then you find that so many people

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relate to it and you’re like, wow, actually this could be something.

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Something similar with Casual Ableism for me I started it because I wanted to do and to like express

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these ableist experiences that I had and I hadn’t done anything about.

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And then actually I posted some things and then everyone else was like, Oh,

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this happened to me, this happened to me.

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And that how it turned into what it is today with other people

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sharing their stories, not me sharing my stories.

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And it’s the same,

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I think it just goes

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and then you realize there’s a bigger purpose,

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what you’re doing, and especially something that you love doing.

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And I think like you say, the Hebrides is such an iconic place as well.

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So it was also like a great place to start off with because so many people

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probably think, Well, yeah, I would love to go to that, but don’t know.

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I think that’s also a the issue is that websites,

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whether it’s Airbnb, it’s Booking.com, whether it’s individual

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company venues, websites,

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they don’t necessarily always have the accessibility statement do they?

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No.

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So I think that’s also a really big issue.

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And it means that we have to put

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so much more into a planning our trips than someone who isn’t disabled

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because we have to like, phone them up personally.

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We have to send the emails, chase them, and it means you have to

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start your planning so long in advance.

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Yeah, I completely agree with that.

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And I think that’s what I wanted to do with this really was

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hopefully take some of that planning and research out of it for other people.

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Okay, here’s a venue I can go to and I can do this and this and this.

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I know what to expect in terms of accessibility and at the same time

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feedback to the to the venue or to the accommodation or whatever.

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I would say like this is, this is the information I’ve provided.

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But it would be really useful

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if you provided that on your website as well, because,

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you know, I, I miss spontaneity.

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I’ve, I use,

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I like I traveled around in a van in Australia for a couple of years

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and it was very much like, “where shall I go today?”

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you know, this is all pre disability.

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So it was so easy.

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You just go places and you know, you don’t think about it.

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You don’t have to consider what if I get there and x, y, z?

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Yeah, exactly.

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And you know, obviously on Instagram and I’ll see it, this beautiful place

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and like, Oh, I’d love to go stay in that accommodation and then I have to go.

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All right, But is that accessible? Onto the website…

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No information sends an email.

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And you know,

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I’ve realized over time as well, you have to get really specific in your emails.

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You can’t say like, you know, oh, are you wheelchair accessible?

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Because, you know, I can learn and just be guided along as well,

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You know, about disability and accessibility as somebody who

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who has an acquired disability, you know, I’ve been learning and I still am.

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And a yeah, I’ve realized that in those emails

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I have to say, you know, I ask what’s your entrance like?

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There have been places, that are like

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Oh yeah, we’re wheelchair accessible.

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And then you get there and there’s no wheelchair accessible toilets.

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And now I’m like, Are you wheelchaor Accessible?

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You know, how are your doors, do you have an accessible toilet?

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And it’s just like most of the questions I’ve honed it down to like a copy

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and paste email. Yeah, yeah.

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I also a good point is other people, or someone who isn’t disabled,

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their perception of accessibility is just like a box tick, like check box.

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We have around or you know, but actually if people are writing

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disability statements about their accommodation or venue,

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and haven’t got a disability then they don’t necessarily actually know.

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What’s actually important like is the tiniest thing of is that is the doorway

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wide enough exactly, or the toilet accessible, is the basin and too high too low?

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I think that’s also what’s really good about what you’re doing,

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is that you’re actually somebody who is disabled writing these things.

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So you actually have that first hand experience.

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And you know what’s important and what you need

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and so therefore what someone else might need.

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So you’re able to actually write honestly and genuinely write these things,

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not just yeah, it’s accessible, there’s a ramp, maybe a step or two as well.

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But yeah, you can get in the building,

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but then once in the building you actually can’t go any farther, you know.

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So that’s also important is to have,

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you know, they have people who actually are disabled

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even in the bigger companies like can, you know, hotel companies

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or other big travel companies or accommodations that can actually like

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have that first hand experience that kind of like just helps the way that it’s written

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and the understanding.

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Because unless you actually live

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with a disability, whether it’s through yourself

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or through a family member who has a disability, you don’t actually know exactly

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about the infinite and the exact things do you?

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No, you don’t.

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And even, you know, I’m I’m always careful to say as well I’m

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writing about this from my experience as a manual wheelchair user.

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And yeah, I can stand and walk a little about, but tend not to

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when I’m out about in new places to avoid risking a fall if I do.

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And so most people say that and I always encourage

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other disabled people to do what I’m doing.

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Go out, write blogs, go stay places because, you know, disability is so varied,

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And, you know, the more people write about it and their experience, the better.

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You know, one thing I think of is

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I presume you know of

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Simply Emma, I yeah, yeah, yeah.

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She’s fantastic.

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And, you know, quite often we find that we end up going to the same places

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and both based in Scotland

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and but it’s great because you have, you know, my,

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my version of how did I get on here, my manual wheelchair and then Emma like,

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how did she get on with her powerchair?

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How did it meet her needs or not? You know, so

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the more of us doing in this, the better.

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And yeah, I think it is important, definitely.

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I think also on that note about using you using a manual wheelchair and

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Emma uses a power wheelchair, and I use a mobility scooter.

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So those are three mobility aid, very different.

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And their capabilities in themselves are very different.

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Like a manual wheelchair, you can just shove it up a ramp,

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you know, you can just get someone to shove you up a ramp,

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or drop you over a step, whereas a power chair or mobility

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scooter is less, there are more restrictions.

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And you know, level of incline for my mobility scooter if something is too steep,

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it just doesn’t stop.

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I go zooming down a hill and that’s terrifying, you know?

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Yeah, there’s no break to it.

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So they people think of, you know, someone who’s disabled, in a wheelchair.

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So therefore it’s one type of mobility aid,

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right ‘tick box’ because it works for a certain wheelchair

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fine. As you say, like what it was for.

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But Emma, when you go somewhere, to the same place, it is very interesting.

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And I think that’s also why it is so important.

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You people, to write your blog or even if you leave a review,

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if going to Airbnb or somewhere, just leave a review even

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you don’t necessarily have to undergo the whole like writing a blog

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and everything, but just write a review and just say, This is how it was for me.

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This is my mobility aid, and it will help people to say saves

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the next person kind of having to go through the this

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just by the arriving and finding, oh, I can’t actually get it in or,

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It’s going to save saved you having to phone up email and stuff like that.

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So I think it’s really good and it’s fun as well.

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You know, traveling and then you’re,

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using those experiences as a benefit of help the next person.

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Yeah, absolutely.

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And that’s why sites like Euan’s Guide are really good

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as a really good place to

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leave reviews and even I find TripAdvisor.

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There’s a little search box and I go in and type

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wheelchair or accessibility or whatever and see what comes up.

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And so I think they can be quite helpful to leave

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leave reviews on on various sites, You know, so you’ve got the energy and

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and and you’ve got the time to do that, then, yeah, this is very, very helpful.

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I’ve found other people’s reviews to be more valuable than

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websites from businesses and things like that.

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So although that’s an app that says response to you know, Yes, yeah,

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I think even I find places where I’ve been could have been doing some conferences

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and I was asking the organizers, you know, and it was a combination,

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but it’s so similar of, you know, is there is there a lift?

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Is there a ramp?

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And they actually sent me photos.

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This is the lift is the lift size.

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This is a photo of the ramp.

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And even like that is just like so reassuring because,

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you know, they say we’ve got a lift a ramp.

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Like, how steep is it?

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How big is the lift, you know, and what sort of lift is it, like when you hold

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the button down all the way up, you know, that sort of thing.

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And so even people who take the time to send photos

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of their venue, of their accommodation, you’re like, Yeah, there is a tiny step.

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This is a photo of it, but this is how it like tall it is.

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Would that be okay?

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But this is just being transparent and upfront.

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So when you arrive, you’re not like, okay, one minute.

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I was not expecting that

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because that was also a lot of that you are met with confrontation,

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aren’t you in your holiday you’re going to is a really nice,

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you know, a birthday celebration or just a like a holiday

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and you arrive in a holiday mood and then

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now what do I do?

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And that’s taking away that like confrontation.

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And it was actually like, you don’t have to battle with the host

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or the owner of like and you didn’t tell me this or, you know,

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what am I supposed to do after you’ve been how many miles to get here?

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So I think that’s also like a really good point.

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Yeah, I think having that confrontation is,

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you know, immediately stop saying attack.

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So if to say you’re in the holiday mood and then, Yeah,

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oh God, what do you do now?

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And I think there’s a lot of pressure as well

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to be like the good disabled person and not be too confrontational.

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I’ll not be too awkward, you know, say like, how am I going to compose

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myself here?

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How am I going to, you know, how we’re going to do this?

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And, you know,

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I’ve had

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issues when I’ve arrived, nothing really significant, but

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I’ve had issues when I’ve arrived and the responses have been different.

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You know, some of the responses have been, you know, that I’m really sorry.

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Let’s see what we can do to sort this.

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And I think that’s great.

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But that’s been sort of where it’s kind of like, oh,

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I don’t know what to do.

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So yeah, yeah, you have.

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I mean, it’s, you know you work here, it’s not up to me.

00:13:27:14 – 00:13:32:14
No, I think you never you never want to have to feel like Oh, pushing like you’re

00:13:32:16 – 00:13:36:01
trying to kind of get what you rightly should be able to deserve and.

00:13:36:02 – 00:13:36:12
Exactly.

00:13:36:12 – 00:13:39:12
You just don’t want to kind of be, Oh, hey, you know what?

00:13:39:12 – 00:13:42:10
I think that the attitude you are met with.

00:13:42:10 – 00:13:44:22
If you’re met with somebody who’s like, Oh, my gosh, I’m so sorry.

00:13:44:22 – 00:13:47:05
What can we do then? Now it’s fine.

00:13:47:05 – 00:13:50:05
But what do you about those people who are that are the training or awareness

00:13:50:05 – 00:13:52:15
as long as they might people without said hotels

00:13:52:15 – 00:13:54:21
or like bigger venues where it’s not just the owner

00:13:54:21 – 00:13:58:04
that they are or other training or the oh, the awareness

00:13:58:04 – 00:14:02:06
what someone with a disability might need or how to even deal with situation

00:14:02:08 – 00:14:02:16
and that.

00:14:02:16 – 00:14:05:22
So it’s a really important big a bigger companies or bigger holiday

00:14:05:22 – 00:14:10:19
resorts or bigger complexes, probably should maybe have

00:14:10:21 – 00:14:13:05
I guess if you have disabled people to stay more often than you bring more awareness,

00:14:13:05 – 00:14:15:01
more aware of and more exposed to it.

00:14:15:01 – 00:14:17:17
But that’s another thing is that attitude

00:14:17:17 – 00:14:21:08
and that training or awareness is of like, okay, well let’s find a solution to this.

00:14:21:10 – 00:14:22:13
You know, just give me a minute.

00:14:22:13 – 00:14:27:01
You know, here’s a free drink while you wait, I’m going to sort it out.

00:14:27:03 – 00:14:27:15
Yeah.

00:14:27:15 – 00:14:28:17
Yeah.

00:14:28:17 – 00:14:30:14
I think because, well, often you get the oh well,

00:14:30:14 – 00:14:32:17
you know, we don’t get many disabled people here.

00:14:32:17 – 00:14:35:12
And I’m like, well, I wonder why.

00:14:35:12 – 00:14:38:05
And just because you’ve never had someone before

00:14:38:05 – 00:14:39:09
doesn’t mean

00:14:39:09 – 00:14:43:09
You shouldn’t have the wherewithal and the accommodations to be able to

00:14:43:09 – 00:14:45:00
then accommodate somebody with disability

00:14:45:00 – 00:14:47:22
just because people don’t normally come there that are disabled?

00:14:47:22 – 00:14:50:05
Doesn’t mean you aren’t going to get somebody disabled

00:14:50:05 – 00:14:51:04
and you shouldn’t

00:14:51:04 – 00:14:53:16
think, well, in ten years you’ve never had someone in a wheelchair,

00:14:53:16 – 00:14:55:02
So therefore you don’t need to worry about it.

00:14:55:02 – 00:14:56:13
It shouldn’t be about that.

00:14:56:13 – 00:14:58:11
It should be about if someone does arrive in a wheelchair

00:14:58:11 – 00:15:01:14
or with a mobility aid or with a visual impairment or any

00:15:01:14 – 00:15:05:13
form of disability, then we can do it much more the world to adjust.

00:15:05:13 – 00:15:09:07
But yeah, we can do it and it’s that open minded attitude.

00:15:09:09 – 00:15:11:24
And there are always going to be places that don’t necessarily

00:15:11:24 – 00:15:15:15
have that mentality, but hopefully the majority would.

00:15:15:15 – 00:15:18:22
So in your experience, have you kind of I’m not saying name names,

00:15:18:22 – 00:15:22:04
but have you experienced ableist or

00:15:22:06 – 00:15:26:21
inaccessible accommodation when you’ve been traveling?

00:15:26:23 – 00:15:29:01
Yeah, absolutely.

00:15:29:01 – 00:15:33:01
I, I find the individual,

00:15:33:01 – 00:15:36:03
you know, small, small scale businesses are the best.

00:15:36:03 – 00:15:39:10
You know, because you’re dealing you’re very human.

00:15:39:10 – 00:15:43:12
You’re dealing with a human being who has usually invited

00:15:43:12 – 00:15:46:24
you along to to kind of say what can we do?

00:15:46:24 – 00:15:48:19
And I’m looking for your input.

00:15:48:19 – 00:15:53:18
And that that can be a really good conversation to have.

00:15:53:20 – 00:15:58:09
But I’ve had incidents with with hotels.

00:15:58:11 – 00:15:59:06
This is awful.

00:15:59:06 – 00:16:02:03
But pretty much I think every wheelchair user will know what I mean

00:16:02:03 – 00:16:05:09
When I’ve had the goods lift experience or the bin

00:16:05:09 – 00:16:09:24
lift experiences where you know, you when you arrive at a hotel,

00:16:10:01 – 00:16:12:15
you want that experience of going into the reception.

00:16:12:15 – 00:16:14:21
And receptions are always beautiful.

00:16:14:21 – 00:16:18:11
And you know, you’re very welcome and and that’s part

00:16:18:11 – 00:16:22:17
of the experience rather than the Oh sorry.

00:16:22:17 – 00:16:25:24
We’ll have to take you round the back where the bins are.

00:16:26:01 – 00:16:28:09
The, you know, the bin lift, the goods lift.

00:16:28:09 – 00:16:32:21
That is immediately saying that you’re not deserving of the experience.

00:16:32:23 – 00:16:35:07
No. Not the ‘normal guests’

00:16:35:07 – 00:16:36:07
Yes, exactly.

00:16:36:07 – 00:16:39:21
And if you asked any of the guests to do that, can you imagine

00:16:39:21 – 00:16:43:08
the uproar and the reviews and everyone

00:16:43:13 – 00:16:46:17
everyone would think that they were justified in in

00:16:46:22 – 00:16:48:21
leaving a terrible review because they were made to go

00:16:48:21 – 00:16:50:22
because up the goods lift, but the disabled person.

00:16:50:22 – 00:16:53:22
If you leave a review saying it was awful, I had to go in

00:16:54:01 – 00:16:55:10
the goods lift or the bins lift

00:16:55:10 – 00:17:00:22
everyone’s like, Well, well, you know, they did what they could, you know.

00:17:00:24 – 00:17:04:04
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:17:04:06 – 00:17:06:24
There was one hotel where

00:17:06:24 – 00:17:09:05
it’s very awkward to get to the reception,

00:17:09:05 – 00:17:11:17
their car park and we had lifts again

00:17:11:17 – 00:17:15:20
and then the reception in the end and the booking.

00:17:15:20 – 00:17:19:20
So I was with my wife and my wife had the two dogs and the,

00:17:19:20 – 00:17:24:17
and the cases and the booking was in my name to the reception.

00:17:24:20 – 00:17:28:09
to the lowered desk

00:17:28:11 – 00:17:29:24
You usually have to sign and stuff

00:17:29:24 – 00:17:32:16
so they have a lower desk

00:17:32:16 – 00:17:36:17
and the receptionist just ignored me and said to my wife.

00:17:36:17 – 00:17:38:10
Oh hi, welcome.

00:17:38:10 – 00:17:40:06
And what name is the booking?

00:17:40:06 – 00:17:42:17
And so I kind of leaned round.

00:17:42:17 – 00:17:44:14
Well, yeah,

00:17:44:14 – 00:17:47:12
I thought maybe she hadn’t seen me because there was a computer.

00:17:47:12 – 00:17:50:11
So although they had a lower desk, it was all like piled up with stuff

00:17:50:11 – 00:17:53:22
and there was like computers blocking the view

00:17:54:02 – 00:17:57:07
So I kind of wheeled to the, to the standard desk

00:17:57:09 – 00:18:02:01
and, and I said, Oh, hi, my name is well,

00:18:02:03 – 00:18:04:21
I’ve booked in. And

00:18:04:21 – 00:18:06:05
she just ignored me

00:18:06:05 – 00:18:09:14
and said to Kirsty, Right, okay, I just need you to fill out

00:18:09:14 – 00:18:13:09
this form, blah, blah, blah, blah blah, and Kirsty’s there with the dogs.

00:18:13:09 – 00:18:16:20
And the case is she doesn’t have a free hand that I’m there, you know?

00:18:16:22 – 00:18:19:14
And so

00:18:19:14 – 00:18:23:15
Kirsty just passed me the form and I took it to the bit of desk

00:18:23:17 – 00:18:27:22
and I was filling out and I said, All right, we also validate your parking

00:18:27:24 – 00:18:31:05
again, talking to Kirtsy, to validate your parking and we need your

00:18:31:07 – 00:18:32:24
we need your reg plate.

00:18:32:24 – 00:18:35:19
And she went “it’s not my car”

00:18:35:19 – 00:18:37:03
passed it to me.

00:18:37:03 – 00:18:41:05
And this whole time it was in the end Kirsty had to walk away.

00:18:41:07 – 00:18:44:07
And that was the only way to get her to talk to you.

00:18:44:13 – 00:18:45:07
Yeah, Yeah.

00:18:45:07 – 00:18:49:01
That was the only way to get the receptionist to talk to me was

00:18:49:03 – 00:18:51:00
for Kirsty to walk away.

00:18:51:00 – 00:18:54:02
And and in the end I got it all sorted.

00:18:54:02 – 00:19:00:17
But I, you know, it’s made me, I’m quite a resilient person right.

00:19:00:19 – 00:19:01:20
It really just

00:19:01:20 – 00:19:07:04
made me feel invisible and I thought, wow, like

00:19:07:06 – 00:19:08:24
out of Kirsty and I in our marriage.

00:19:08:24 – 00:19:10:04
I am the organizer.

00:19:10:04 – 00:19:13:04
I am the planner

00:19:13:04 – 00:19:14:20
of my

00:19:14:20 – 00:19:16:00
life.

00:19:16:00 – 00:19:16:21
Yeah. Yeah.

00:19:16:21 – 00:19:19:13
So when I go and after all this organizing of this plan

00:19:19:13 – 00:19:23:03
and then I turn up and I’m ignored, it’s like,

00:19:23:05 – 00:19:26:20
yeah, it really it knocked me a bit.

00:19:26:22 – 00:19:27:18
Yeah.

00:19:27:18 – 00:19:29:23
But I think also the fact that often,

00:19:29:23 – 00:19:33:06
very often it happens that someone turns to someone you’re with and not you,

00:19:33:11 – 00:19:35:11
and then they get the message and then they talk to you.

00:19:35:11 – 00:19:38:21
But the thought that you actually continue to ignore you,

00:19:38:21 – 00:19:40:21
even though you’ve made it obvious that actually

00:19:40:21 – 00:19:42:18
you were the one in charge in that situation.

00:19:42:18 – 00:19:43:06
Yeah.

00:19:43:06 – 00:19:46:06
Just, you know that even if you’re prepared for it

00:19:46:06 – 00:19:50:01
or you’re, you know, used to happening, it still does hurt.

00:19:50:07 – 00:19:54:09
So it’s a bit like, okay, great, you spend your money on that.

00:19:54:12 – 00:19:55:22
You don’t feel like an equal.

00:19:55:22 – 00:19:59:04
It’s not yeah, it’s not the best, but. Oh

00:19:59:06 – 00:20:00:00
yeah, yeah.

00:20:00:00 – 00:20:03:07
I just what I think is like, how hard is it to see a human being

00:20:03:07 – 00:20:07:05
and just, like, interact with them as a human being, you know?

00:20:07:07 – 00:20:09:19
The booking must have had two people on it.

00:20:09:19 – 00:20:13:01
So if she was there then where’s other person then?

00:20:13:03 – 00:20:16:02
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It was a two people.

00:20:16:02 – 00:20:18:10
Yeah. It’s very, very strange.

00:20:18:10 – 00:20:21:22
And it’s also another thing I’ve experienced is that, you know,

00:20:21:24 – 00:20:25:02
you go to reception and say, Hi, I’m here, and they go, Oh, hang on a minute,

00:20:25:05 – 00:20:30:07
and they turn around and go “we’ve got a wheelchair”.

00:20:30:09 – 00:20:30:24
A wheelchair has arrived.

00:20:30:24 – 00:20:32:09

00:20:32:09 – 00:20:33:00
Yeah, yeah.

00:20:33:00 – 00:20:35:16
It’s like, did it just wheel itself in off the street.

00:20:35:16 – 00:20:39:13
What do we do with it?

00:20:39:15 – 00:20:40:06
It’s got no owner.

00:20:40:06 – 00:20:43:03
No, no. You know,

00:20:43:03 – 00:20:46:24
I’m literally sat in it. Hi.

00:20:47:01 – 00:20:49:01
Yeah, it happens in restaurants quite a bit as well.

00:20:49:01 – 00:20:51:04
Like, Oh, we’ve got a wheelchair, you know.

00:20:51:04 – 00:20:53:16
Can we not. Oh, jeez.

00:20:53:16 – 00:20:55:00
You know.

00:20:55:00 – 00:20:56:15
How ableist is that.

00:20:56:15 – 00:20:58:00
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:20:58:00 – 00:21:00:09
Do you mind letting the wheelchair through.

00:21:00:09 – 00:21:02:13
I can I come through as well please.

00:21:02:13 – 00:21:05:20
On it’s own or…?

00:21:05:22 – 00:21:08:02
You want me to sit on the floor?

00:21:08:02 – 00:21:10:08
Well, it will take us for a meal. Yeah.

00:21:10:08 – 00:21:12:06
So there’s,

00:21:12:06 – 00:21:14:09
you know, it’s, incidents like that.

00:21:14:09 – 00:21:18:17
And then on the on the flipside,

00:21:18:19 – 00:21:22:23
now, when I say things that I don’t want to feel like I’m setting

00:21:22:23 – 00:21:28:15
an impossible standard for people who work in the hospitality industry.

00:21:28:17 – 00:21:33:23
But there’s the flipside where people go over the top,

00:21:34:00 – 00:21:36:05
you know, and

00:21:36:05 – 00:21:39:00
I think, you know, I’m inclined to think, well,

00:21:39:00 – 00:21:41:04
it’s great that they’re making an effort,

00:21:41:06 – 00:21:43:08
you know, that that’s grand.

00:21:43:08 – 00:21:47:01
But when you have people who are like, oh, you see them interact

00:21:47:01 – 00:21:50:03
with everybody else and it’s like, oh, hi, you know what time are you booked at?

00:21:50:04 – 00:21:51:08
or what we said.

00:21:51:08 – 00:21:53:19
And then when you were, I was, Oh, hi, welcome.

00:21:53:19 – 00:21:55:09
I love how you’re dressed.

00:21:55:09 – 00:21:57:03
Unbelievable.

00:21:57:03 – 00:21:58:21
I mean, like, wow, this is.

00:21:58:21 – 00:22:01:15
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:22:01:15 – 00:22:04:23
You try really hard, but I would never leave

00:22:05:00 – 00:22:08:07
a negative review from that.

00:22:08:09 – 00:22:10:04
I don’t think so. People might.

00:22:10:04 – 00:22:13:04
And I think that would be justified because it is that, you know,

00:22:13:08 – 00:22:17:03
drawing attention to you and, you know, in a way that you might,

00:22:17:05 – 00:22:18:23
you just want to arrive and be treated

00:22:18:23 – 00:22:21:04
exactly the same as everybody else.

00:22:21:04 – 00:22:24:09
Yeah yeah but but yeah tend not to complain about it

00:22:24:09 – 00:22:25:23
because I feel like yeah you don’t want to set this

00:22:25:23 – 00:22:28:08
impossible standard of like oh well that’s,

00:22:28:08 – 00:22:32:11
that’s not being helpful enough and not being too helpful, you know,

00:22:32:13 – 00:22:35:23
because yeah, you don’t want to make it feel like it’s hard

00:22:35:23 – 00:22:37:03
for people to find that balance.

00:22:37:03 – 00:22:41:20
But I think really it’s just like see a human treat them as a human.

00:22:41:24 – 00:22:44:24
That’s really is as simple as it is.

00:22:44:24 – 00:22:49:05
But as you say, that comes down to training and particularly

00:22:49:05 – 00:22:54:10
with these bigger organizations, that should be standards, you know.

00:22:54:12 – 00:22:55:19
Yeah, you would have thought it would have been

00:22:55:19 – 00:22:57:19
you can understand how either a smaller

00:22:57:19 – 00:23:01:00
but it’s just I don’t know just by one owner or as a family

00:23:01:05 – 00:23:05:01
but especially when you have employees are part of that customer service training.

00:23:05:03 – 00:23:08:14
But even like before they get to the workplace, even if

00:23:08:16 – 00:23:11:12
when they are training for hospitality, if they go to hotel school

00:23:11:12 – 00:23:15:14
or if they, you know, do whatever sort of college course in hospitality,

00:23:15:16 – 00:23:20:01
maybe it should be even a that’s the beginning stage training.

00:23:20:01 – 00:23:23:12
This is how when you have a disabled guest or someone with a difference,

00:23:23:14 – 00:23:25:11
this is how it is and this is what they need

00:23:25:11 – 00:23:27:06
and this is how you deal with those situations.

00:23:27:06 – 00:23:30:09
And if you know they arrive and you haven’t got accessibility requirements

00:23:30:09 – 00:23:33:05
in place for them, then this is how you deal with it.

00:23:33:05 – 00:23:36:05
You don’t just kind of close down, and you don’t go overboard

00:23:36:10 – 00:23:38:19
With how you find the solution.

00:23:38:19 – 00:23:42:22
So it was even just at that very, very beginning stage trying to implement

00:23:42:24 – 00:23:45:16
that awareness and exposure.

00:23:45:18 – 00:23:46:08
Definitely.

00:23:46:08 – 00:23:50:19
I think even when I think about myself at school

00:23:50:21 – 00:23:54:16
and college and university, accessibility was never mentioned.

00:23:54:18 – 00:23:57:18
And any way at all.

00:23:57:22 – 00:24:01:21
I just have no concept of it.

00:24:01:23 – 00:24:03:20
You know, I was in that privileged position

00:24:03:20 – 00:24:08:02
to not have experienced it myself and and to be able

00:24:08:02 – 00:24:12:07
to move around the world freely without thinking about accessibility.

00:24:12:09 – 00:24:15:09
And it was only in maybe my first job,

00:24:15:15 – 00:24:20:02
I was working at a tourist attraction and they were fantastic.

00:24:20:02 – 00:24:23:07
That training was top notch, and that’s

00:24:23:07 – 00:24:26:15
when I started to see the world differently.

00:24:26:17 – 00:24:29:23
And see that it wasn’t equal

00:24:30:00 – 00:24:33:09
and that, you know, people were having different experiences

00:24:33:09 – 00:24:35:03
when they arrived at this tourist attraction

00:24:35:03 – 00:24:38:23
and how could we level that playing field, you know, So that was

00:24:38:23 – 00:24:44:03
I think even, you know, just yeah, it just needs to be

00:24:44:05 – 00:24:46:23
that in, you know,

00:24:46:23 – 00:24:49:23
I think it goes beyond, you know, just staff, but anyone who,

00:24:50:03 – 00:24:52:05
you know, whether it be friends or family or associates

00:24:52:05 – 00:24:55:07
who don’t necessarily realize what it is that you need.

00:24:55:07 – 00:24:58:09
If you even if you say you’re going out for a drink or go into the pub

00:24:58:10 – 00:25:02:14
a restaurant, they don’t necessarily even kind of think about hang on, if

00:25:02:14 – 00:25:04:12
They’re accessible,

00:25:04:12 – 00:25:07:04
and unless they’re a very close friend or

00:25:07:04 – 00:25:08:08
they always go out with you

00:25:08:08 – 00:25:11:19
then they would come to know like my friends are incredible, they would be like

00:25:11:22 – 00:25:14:22
suggest a place, don’t worry I know it’s got an accessible toilet, I know it’s

00:25:14:22 – 00:25:18:00
got a ramp and don’t worry, everything’s fine and it takes it away from me.

00:25:18:02 – 00:25:21:04
If I say to them, Hang on a minute, I need to phone up first and check it.

00:25:21:04 – 00:25:23:03
And it’s also like, Yeah, of course, whatever.

00:25:23:03 – 00:25:24:24
I think not just like takes the stress out of it.

00:25:24:24 – 00:25:28:05
It makes you feel less like you’re

00:25:28:07 – 00:25:28:17
kind of like

00:25:28:17 – 00:25:32:15
being an inconvenience or like you’re complicating the outing or making it a bit serious

00:25:32:19 – 00:25:34:11
then that’s really good,

00:25:34:11 – 00:25:37:22
So it’s not just about, I think, just like a human level

00:25:37:24 – 00:25:41:15
that to have that exposure to it and I think can’t expect someone working

00:25:41:15 – 00:25:45:03
in a hotel or an accommodation site

00:25:45:04 – 00:25:48:14
or an attraction to have that if they don’t have that in their real life.

00:25:48:14 – 00:25:52:11
So this whole thing about, you know, shifting society’s,

00:25:52:13 – 00:25:55:07
you know, mentality on disability and just, you know,

00:25:55:07 – 00:25:59:07
making it more of a open topic so that everyone is aware of it.

00:25:59:07 – 00:26:00:24
Now, you say a given for so many years

00:26:00:24 – 00:26:03:24
now without even realizing it because it was never talked about

00:26:04:05 – 00:26:06:06
and if I never talked about it, there’s going to be an issue.

00:26:06:06 – 00:26:09:10
It’s not a bad thing to talk about sort of, you know, a negative.

00:26:09:10 – 00:26:10:10
It’s not anything taboo.

00:26:10:10 – 00:26:13:06
It just needs to be open and then there won’t be these issues.

00:26:13:06 – 00:26:17:07
And I feel like you’re having to battle every time that you need to ask,

00:26:17:07 – 00:26:20:05
you know, is there a lift, is there a step or anything like that.

00:26:20:05 – 00:26:22:03
So it just goes even beyond that.

00:26:22:03 – 00:26:25:01
You know, you thought that niche.

00:26:25:03 – 00:26:26:16
Yeah, I agree.

00:26:26:16 – 00:26:27:09
I do agree.

00:26:27:09 – 00:26:31:09
And I think it’s really interesting, as you say, about when you going out

00:26:31:11 – 00:26:34:21
with friends and you

00:26:34:23 – 00:26:37:12
that’s, I’m the researcher I’m the planner or the organizer.

00:26:37:12 – 00:26:40:17
And when someone says, you know, like, all right, we’re going on a night out

00:26:40:17 – 00:26:43:18
and we’re going here, I just cease up I’m like, Oh,

00:26:43:18 – 00:26:47:10
all right, now, now I’m going to have to be awkward.

00:26:47:12 – 00:26:51:20
And it’s not awkward is not awkward in the slightest.

00:26:51:22 – 00:26:53:11
but it’s like now I have to be awkward.

00:26:53:11 – 00:26:59:00
Whereas recently I see a couple of new friends who I met on Instagram.

00:26:59:02 – 00:27:00:08
Pretty cool.

00:27:00:08 – 00:27:03:23
And they’re both able bodied. And,

00:27:04:00 – 00:27:07:18
you know, I’ve had the message and say like, Oh, let’s meet for coffee.

00:27:07:20 – 00:27:08:22
Yeah, great idea.

00:27:08:22 – 00:27:12:17
And they’ll say, Right, okay, give me, give me a couple of days.

00:27:12:17 – 00:27:14:22
I’ll find a somewhere accessible to go.

00:27:14:22 – 00:27:18:06
I was stunned. It’s like

00:27:18:08 – 00:27:18:20
wow

00:27:18:20 – 00:27:19:20
Okay, yeah, cool.

00:27:19:20 – 00:27:23:15
And then they came back to me and said, Look, here’s a couple of options.

00:27:23:19 – 00:27:26:18
This is what the accessibility said on the website here.

00:27:26:18 – 00:27:29:16
You know that Access guide, whatever this is, it’s

00:27:29:16 – 00:27:31:14
just do either of those suit you.

00:27:31:14 – 00:27:34:14
And so I’ve been involved in that decision making as well can be

00:27:34:14 – 00:27:36:03
it can be really reassuring.

00:27:36:03 – 00:27:39:06
You know, they just don’t fully know your access needs.

00:27:39:06 – 00:27:43:06
And I just you know, and I think because they followed my Instagram,

00:27:43:11 – 00:27:44:18
they know that, you know,

00:27:44:18 – 00:27:49:14
the things I speak about how often somewhere will say they’re accessible and yeah,

00:27:49:16 – 00:27:52:04
oh yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:27:52:04 – 00:27:55:10
And that’s helping you out in terms of they,

00:27:55:12 – 00:27:55:17
you know,

00:27:55:17 – 00:27:56:04
they’re kind of like

00:27:56:04 – 00:28:00:00
taking that pressure away from you, but they weren’t making that decision on your behalf.

00:28:00:00 – 00:28:03:08
They still want people like, Oh yeah, no, no, it’s fine, I’ll queck, but

00:28:03:11 – 00:28:07:16
so we still need to know for ourselves, like doubly doubly sure that’s going to be fine.

00:28:07:16 – 00:28:08:19
And so that’s really nice that they actually then

00:28:08:19 – 00:28:10:04
still kind of gave you

00:28:10:04 – 00:28:13:05
you know the options and so you could double check that

00:28:13:05 – 00:28:14:11
for your specific needs.

00:28:14:11 – 00:28:18:06
It was going to be fine and that also what it’s all about, it makes it much easier

00:28:18:07 – 00:28:20:16
and especially new friends

00:28:20:16 – 00:28:23:08
it’s always a bit daunting to be like “hang on a minute,

00:28:23:08 – 00:28:26:19
yeah but can we actually just double check that it is,” or arrive somewhere

00:28:26:19 – 00:28:29:14
or if you don’t say it in advance and you arrive, somewhere see there’s a step,

00:28:29:14 – 00:28:32:01
you got to think, do I just not say anything?

00:28:32:01 – 00:28:37:01
Do I hope I don’t need the toilet or do I say actually can we go somewhere else, you know?

00:28:37:03 – 00:28:38:13
Yeah. Yeah, definitely.

00:28:38:13 – 00:28:42:12
And I think that’s that’s as well, you know, if we’re talking about

00:28:42:14 – 00:28:44:02
education around around

00:28:44:02 – 00:28:47:19
disability, I mean that that’s one.

00:28:47:21 – 00:28:49:17
I think Instagram has its faults.

00:28:49:17 – 00:28:52:09
Of course, the places that Instagram takes up,

00:28:52:09 – 00:28:55:09
there’s a huge amount of disabled creators on there

00:28:55:14 – 00:28:59:18
sharing information and trying to make connections and friendships.

00:28:59:18 – 00:29:03:06
And I think it’s a really good environment

00:29:03:06 – 00:29:07:11
to to learn more about disability, whether you are disabled or not.

00:29:07:11 – 00:29:11:09
You know, I’ve learned a lot about other people’s disabilities and

00:29:11:13 – 00:29:15:15
and access needs from following them and and

00:29:15:20 – 00:29:19:05
and I know that able bodied people have learned from for my stuff online.

00:29:19:06 – 00:29:23:19
And I think that just connecting and in that way is going to increase

00:29:23:19 – 00:29:24:17
because well as people then

00:29:24:17 – 00:29:29:14
go on to the particular jobs accessibility is in their mind you know

00:29:29:16 – 00:29:30:17
that it’s very, very, very true.

00:29:30:17 – 00:29:32:23
And I think that is a really good thing about about social media

00:29:32:23 – 00:29:37:05
is that you can reach far more people with the content as well.

00:29:37:05 – 00:29:39:03
And I think that, yes, even nicer

00:29:39:03 – 00:29:41:07
you’ve learnt a lot more about disability

00:29:41:07 – 00:29:43:21
through following people and think through Casual Ableism.

00:29:43:21 – 00:29:46:22
I have learned and being more aware of different types of ableism

00:29:46:22 – 00:29:48:21
and different types of disabilities.

00:29:48:21 – 00:29:49:10
You know, I was

00:29:49:10 – 00:29:52:12
I went into that for my lived experience is always very important

00:29:52:12 – 00:29:53:07
to talk about lived experience.

00:29:53:07 – 00:29:54:21
That’s what I know, and what I have experience with.

00:29:54:21 – 00:29:59:01
It was a physical disability and then

00:29:59:03 – 00:29:59:21
hearing

00:29:59:21 – 00:30:03:03
submissions from people who have, you know, colitis

00:30:03:03 – 00:30:07:05
or they have a colostomy bag or they have, you know,

00:30:07:07 – 00:30:09:23
you know, ADHD or any form of visual impairment

00:30:09:23 – 00:30:13:10
that I had no lived experience of, I didn’t have any awareness

00:30:13:12 – 00:30:17:17
of the ableism that they face in their own unique experience.

00:30:17:17 – 00:30:21:02
And that’s so important, even as a disabled person, I wasn’t aware about,

00:30:21:03 – 00:30:22:19
even though I’m very aware of

00:30:22:19 – 00:30:26:04
lots of things about disability and discrimination because, you know,

00:30:26:04 – 00:30:30:13
I think if you only have that one viewpoint of experience, you don’t know,

00:30:30:15 – 00:30:31:11
and that’s so important

00:30:31:11 – 00:30:34:02
even now, like I would be like, okay, I know that that

00:30:34:02 – 00:30:35:10
it would be an issue for someone else.

00:30:35:10 – 00:30:39:17
So if your paths cross with somebody else and you also like have that awareness

00:30:39:17 – 00:30:41:13
and it’s so important.

00:30:41:15 – 00:30:42:22
I think it

00:30:42:22 – 00:30:47:08
means that anybody I think even I think my friend shared Casual Ableism

00:30:47:08 – 00:30:51:00
when it first started and someone from her work followed

00:30:51:03 – 00:30:54:18
and they were a teacher and they had some students in their class

00:30:54:18 – 00:30:58:19
who had additional needs or disabilities, and they were then able to be like,

00:30:58:19 – 00:31:02:14
Wow, I didn’t know that possibly my students could face these things.

00:31:02:16 – 00:31:05:21
And even that having people who want to learn more

00:31:05:23 – 00:31:09:17
and it’s like they actually want to like, expose themselves to more information,

00:31:09:19 – 00:31:12:04
but possibly wouldn’t know how to or wouldn’t know how to go about it.

00:31:12:04 – 00:31:12:24
So that’s why.

00:31:12:24 – 00:31:14:08
your account and Casual Ableism

00:31:14:08 – 00:31:17:14
with different accounts and creators on Instagram and other platforms.

00:31:17:16 – 00:31:22:09
It’s so important because that’s the way a people can engage really easily

00:31:22:09 – 00:31:26:01
with just like small content, just by reading a post, reading a caption.

00:31:26:06 – 00:31:29:08
But it’s just like the value is very underrated.

00:31:29:08 – 00:31:32:23
You realize how much value it actually has.

00:31:33:00 – 00:31:33:21
I think you’re right.

00:31:33:21 – 00:31:34:11
I think you’re right.

00:31:34:11 – 00:31:37:15
And I think particularly with Casual Ableism, for example,

00:31:37:16 – 00:31:40:16
it’s sharing so many different

00:31:40:19 – 00:31:44:05
points of view and experiences all in one place.

00:31:44:11 – 00:31:48:10
I think that’s a really kind of

00:31:48:12 – 00:31:51:09
it brings people together

00:31:51:09 – 00:31:56:20
who experience some similar things, but in different ways.

00:31:56:22 – 00:31:57:15
Yeah, Yeah.

00:31:57:15 – 00:32:00:03
And it’s a good learning point for a lot of people.

00:32:00:03 – 00:32:02:05
I mean, thank you.

00:32:02:05 – 00:32:02:16
Yeah.

00:32:02:16 – 00:32:06:07
So in terms of like tips for accessible travel,

00:32:06:09 – 00:32:10:06
what would be your kind of like top five tips for anyone who’s

00:32:10:08 – 00:32:14:22
maybe just hasn’t been traveling much or hasn’t necessarily

00:32:15:00 – 00:32:17:09
ventured to a different country or within their own country?

00:32:17:09 – 00:32:18:01
What would be your

00:32:18:01 – 00:32:24:02
Five Tips to look for in terms of, accessible, travel and how to go about it.

00:32:24:04 – 00:32:25:01
Well, I’m definitely not the

00:32:25:01 – 00:32:28:01
person to ask about overseas travel as I’ve not been oversears in years,

00:32:28:06 – 00:32:33:07
but there are plenty of people on on Instagram sharing their experiences.

00:32:33:09 – 00:32:36:12
And so that would probably be tip

00:32:36:12 – 00:32:42:08
number one is get on social media and start following people.

00:32:42:10 – 00:32:46:16
And I think as well, just realize that, yes, some people

00:32:46:16 – 00:32:50:08
do have it, particularly if you if you look at the rights of flights,

00:32:50:10 – 00:32:52:17
stuff that’s around at the minute,

00:32:52:17 – 00:32:54:21
you can see that some people are having some

00:32:54:21 – 00:32:58:00
really horrible experiences on flights.

00:32:58:02 – 00:33:03:11
But if you look amongst that, there are tips and tricks there on

00:33:03:13 – 00:33:05:22
what to prepare for before you arrive at the airport,

00:33:05:22 – 00:33:10:02
how to detach your mobility equipment, what your rights are and things like that.

00:33:10:02 – 00:33:16:22
So I would say that looking at movements like that is great to for overseas travel.

00:33:16:24 – 00:33:21:20
I would would say tip number two, research.

00:33:21:22 – 00:33:24:22
My favorite thing.

00:33:25:02 – 00:33:28:01
And yes, it’s annoying that we have to do it,

00:33:28:01 – 00:33:31:20
but as it stands, yes, we do

00:33:31:22 – 00:33:34:08
so as a research research, research.

00:33:34:08 – 00:33:38:23
So when you arrive, you know what to expect.

00:33:39:00 – 00:33:43:09
I think if you’re if you are looking at a destination

00:33:43:09 – 00:33:46:09
as a whole, you can find out

00:33:46:11 – 00:33:49:04
what pavements are like and things like that go on.

00:33:49:04 – 00:33:53:09
I often use local Facebook groups for areas as well

00:33:53:15 – 00:33:57:18
because it’s a great resource to say, you know,

00:33:57:20 – 00:34:00:03
does anybody know of any wheelchair accessible cafes

00:34:00:03 – 00:34:03:03
or any problems with wheelchair accessibility in the town or whatever?

00:34:03:03 – 00:34:05:24
And disabled people who live there will come back and say,

00:34:05:24 – 00:34:08:11
okay, if you go in this way, use this pavement, or,

00:34:08:11 – 00:34:10:18
you know, here’s a great place for you to stop for lunch.

00:34:10:18 – 00:34:13:13
So it’s a definitely utilize

00:34:13:13 – 00:34:15:20
lived experience from other people.

00:34:15:20 – 00:34:20:12
And if you find those local groups for particular areas, they’re really good.

00:34:20:14 – 00:34:22:04
That’s a really good tip.

00:34:22:06 – 00:34:22:20
Yeah.

00:34:22:20 – 00:34:25:14
Yeah. I think

00:34:25:14 – 00:34:27:09
what my own tip number three

00:34:27:09 – 00:34:30:05
access guide so if you

00:34:30:05 – 00:34:34:04
if you’re familiar with accessibility statements and access guides

00:34:34:06 – 00:34:39:04
say quite often on websites, you’ll find those right in the small blurb

00:34:39:04 – 00:34:43:08
at the bottom or in the three.

00:34:43:10 – 00:34:44:06
Yeah.

00:34:44:06 – 00:34:46:22
A frequently asked questions and you’ll find out

00:34:46:22 – 00:34:48:17
is that it provides like washing up liquid.

00:34:48:17 – 00:34:52:13
How many dogs do you take to provide treats for your dog to this?

00:34:52:15 – 00:34:56:03
And eventually you get the information at the bottom

00:34:56:04 – 00:35:01:04
that the access guides are really, really helpful

00:35:01:06 – 00:35:04:09
in that they don’t use blanket statements like wheelchair

00:35:04:09 – 00:35:07:20
accessible or wheelchair friendly or things like that.

00:35:07:22 – 00:35:10:01
They use

00:35:10:01 – 00:35:13:18
photographs, measurements, detailed descriptions

00:35:13:20 – 00:35:18:08
about what to expect when you get there, and it helps you make your own decision

00:35:18:10 – 00:35:21:06
and whether that’s accessible for you or not.

00:35:21:06 – 00:35:23:09
You know,

00:35:23:11 – 00:35:26:23
I would say number four,

00:35:27:00 – 00:35:30:17
let businesses know your access needs before you arrive.

00:35:30:22 – 00:35:36:00
I think that can be reassuring, even if you’ve

00:35:36:02 – 00:35:39:09
you know, if you’ve read all or as much information as you can.

00:35:39:11 – 00:35:44:03
And it can be helpful to say, hi, I’m going to be arriving on this day

00:35:44:05 – 00:35:47:15
and I just want to check that.

00:35:47:21 – 00:35:50:19
As I said, I’ve got that copy and paste email, which is,

00:35:50:19 – 00:35:54:02
you know, do you have level or ramped access?

00:35:54:04 – 00:35:58:13
Do you have an accessible toilet

00:35:58:15 – 00:36:00:00
what height are your tables?

00:36:00:00 – 00:36:01:17
There’s nothing worse than

00:36:01:17 – 00:36:04:22
not getting your knees under the table and being

00:36:04:24 – 00:36:07:02
struggling with that. So yes.

00:36:07:02 – 00:36:10:03
So maybe get yourself a copy of this email to save time if he’s traveling around

00:36:10:03 – 00:36:13:17
a lot particularly, or if you’re emailing all different businesses and

00:36:13:19 – 00:36:16:19
and then if you if you remember as questions, then

00:36:16:22 – 00:36:20:02
quite often I find people will go and individually answer each question.

00:36:20:02 – 00:36:22:21
So that can be a good way to get

00:36:22:23 – 00:36:26:07
concise information that you need and then obviously give them a nudge

00:36:26:07 – 00:36:31:06
and tell them to pop all the information in their access guide.

00:36:31:08 – 00:36:34:18
And a big one for me is mapping out toilets.

00:36:34:23 – 00:36:35:18
That’s that’s my tip.

00:36:35:18 – 00:36:38:18
Number five is when you’re going somewhere

00:36:38:19 – 00:36:42:00
is the may I have to know where all the toilets are

00:36:42:04 – 00:36:46:07
and you know, factor in okay I’ll look out for like X amount of time.

00:36:46:07 – 00:36:48:01
By this point I could stop at this toilet.

00:36:48:01 – 00:36:52:20
And so good websites that I find are local council websites.

00:36:52:20 – 00:36:56:15
Will have information about about the location of toilets

00:36:56:17 – 00:37:00:00
and the changing places toilet website have a

00:37:00:01 – 00:37:03:22
have a map if you use changing places toilets

00:37:03:24 – 00:37:07:19
and yes, just I do find council websites.

00:37:07:19 – 00:37:11:05
I’m sure there’s a lot of websites that toilet find or something like that.

00:37:11:05 – 00:37:14:13
You know if you if you google the wheelchair accessible toilets in

00:37:14:15 – 00:37:18:12
whatever area and often the descriptions aren’t detailed,

00:37:18:12 – 00:37:20:16
they don’t tell you exactly what you’re going to find in there.

00:37:20:16 – 00:37:26:15
But I know, like for myself, I can kind of be a bit flexible with what I need.

00:37:26:17 – 00:37:30:22
And so, yeah, I think that’s that’s always good because then

00:37:30:24 – 00:37:36:20
that’s one stress taken out of your day, you know, where you can go to the loo.

00:37:36:22 – 00:37:39:09
I mean that’s important to me. Actually my mum,

00:37:39:09 – 00:37:42:19
used to , when I was younger, when we have an app but it was like toilet finder.

00:37:42:21 – 00:37:43:19
yeah.

00:37:43:19 – 00:37:45:03
If you were out somewhere, you go.

00:37:45:03 – 00:37:46:12
Okay, let’s find out where the nearest one is.

00:37:46:12 – 00:37:48:21
Especially you’re going to London for appointments and stuff.

00:37:48:21 – 00:37:52:20
It was just like, okay, we need, you know, because, you know, it is is a fact.

00:37:52:21 – 00:37:55:22
You can’t just go ‘oh I need the loo’ and run,

00:37:55:22 – 00:37:57:07
quickly till I find somewhere.

00:37:57:07 – 00:37:59:08
It’s not like that for us, it has to be

00:37:59:08 – 00:38:00:20
But, you know, certain requirements.

00:38:00:20 – 00:38:01:18
So that’s a really good point.

00:38:01:18 – 00:38:02:19
And I think it’s really good

00:38:02:19 – 00:38:06:09
to know that local council websites have that information as well.

00:38:06:11 – 00:38:07:05
Think you know,

00:38:07:05 – 00:38:07:14
and so,

00:38:07:14 – 00:38:08:24
you know, you think of accessibility, think, okay,

00:38:08:24 – 00:38:11:07
I’m going to go to my accommodation itself.

00:38:11:07 – 00:38:13:04
it might be perfect,

00:38:13:04 – 00:38:15:24
It’s not just about that environment.

00:38:15:24 – 00:38:19:11
If you want to know about the local area, if you go to nearby towns, nearby

00:38:19:11 – 00:38:20:22
Restaurants, cafes, you know that’s the thing,

00:38:20:22 – 00:38:23:19
You know, being on holiday and being and traveling, that’s what it’s all about.

00:38:23:19 – 00:38:26:22
It’s not just about being in the room or being in the venue.

00:38:26:22 – 00:38:28:10
So it’s a really good point.

00:38:28:10 – 00:38:29:08
And it was really, really help.

00:38:29:08 – 00:38:31:18
I would never have thought to look at council websites for,

00:38:31:18 – 00:38:32:17
you know, where the toilets are

00:38:32:17 – 00:38:37:13
It’s really a really good point. Yeah. And

00:38:37:15 – 00:38:39:00
yeah, and most of them will just stay

00:38:39:00 – 00:38:42:21
where they are and opening times and whether or not you need the radar key.

00:38:42:22 – 00:38:45:12
So um, a Radar Key is

00:38:45:12 – 00:38:47:03
really handy.

00:38:47:03 – 00:38:49:18
Yeah that’s a the big tip is to get a radar key

00:38:49:18 – 00:38:53:16
because then wherever you are, I think even like in McDonald’s,

00:38:53:18 – 00:38:55:23
the disabled toilets have a radar key. Okay.

00:38:55:23 – 00:38:58:18
And I think to go to the toilet you need to actually have to ask for it.

00:38:58:18 – 00:39:00:03
So it’s really annoying if you’re,

00:39:00:03 – 00:39:03:05
you know, desperate or you feel that busy that you actually have to

00:39:03:09 – 00:39:05:22
you can’t just open the door and walk in, which is good in terms of,

00:39:05:22 – 00:39:08:11
you know, keeping it clean and people not like abusing it.

00:39:08:11 – 00:39:10:20
But it is really good to know. I think I was caught out of it.

00:39:10:20 – 00:39:13:16
I was in McDonald’s thinking I’d just be able to open the door and go in,

00:39:13:16 – 00:39:15:10
but I couldn’t and I couldn’t get their attention,

00:39:15:10 – 00:39:17:20
is like hi I need the key. Can you please Hurry up.

00:39:17:20 – 00:39:19:03
Not just wait a minute.

00:39:19:03 – 00:39:21:19
No, I can’t just wait a minute, actually, you know.

00:39:21:19 – 00:39:23:15
Yeah, yeah, I just.

00:39:23:15 – 00:39:24:16
I’ll get you a few minutes.

00:39:24:16 – 00:39:26:17
Ah, please give it to me right now.

00:39:26:17 – 00:39:29:13
You know, that’s also a good point, Radar Keys.

00:39:29:13 – 00:39:30:03
And then.

00:39:30:03 – 00:39:33:22
Then you are covered on all bases, which is really good.

00:39:33:24 – 00:39:34:11
Definitely.

00:39:34:11 – 00:39:37:01
And I think like what for you when you go somewhere.

00:39:37:01 – 00:39:39:24
My what is it that places do Right. What are they going to like.

00:39:39:24 – 00:39:43:11
Key things that you feel kind of like they’re going to have

00:39:43:11 – 00:39:47:07
the green flags of somewhere that when they do something right.

00:39:47:07 – 00:39:49:24
What is that kind of like the green flag experience?

00:39:49:24 – 00:39:52:20
Or do you say the green flag experience?

00:39:52:20 – 00:39:56:23
I’m not promoting the breakdown coverage company.

00:39:57:00 – 00:39:59:19
Yeah.

00:39:59:21 – 00:40:00:02
Yeah.

00:40:00:02 – 00:40:04:11
So it varies I think when a green flag for me definitely

00:40:04:11 – 00:40:08:09
seeing an accessibility statement or an access guide you know that for me

00:40:08:11 – 00:40:11:20
the green flag out saying we thought about it you know

00:40:11:22 – 00:40:15:12
or if they mentioned that they their staff

00:40:15:12 – 00:40:20:00
have like disability competence training or you know some some equivalent.

00:40:20:02 – 00:40:22:14
I think they’re saying like we we thought about this

00:40:22:14 – 00:40:26:18
and actually invested time, energy and and money

00:40:26:21 – 00:40:31:15
perhaps into making our business more accessible.

00:40:31:17 – 00:40:35:18
But I think, you know, for me as as a

00:40:35:20 – 00:40:38:20
as a travel blogger, when I get invited somewhere,

00:40:38:24 – 00:40:42:16
I think it’s a brave thing for businesses

00:40:42:16 – 00:40:46:16
to do because, you know,

00:40:46:18 – 00:40:49:19
they’re asking somebody really like, tell me what’s wrong.

00:40:49:23 – 00:40:52:07
You do that, you have a different experience

00:40:52:07 – 00:40:55:15
of a people who are clearly very, very confident in what they offer.

00:40:55:20 – 00:40:58:09
And I’ve had other people say, look,

00:40:58:11 – 00:40:59:11
we don’t

00:40:59:11 – 00:41:05:05
we get minimal feedback from our guests, Come here, tell me everything

00:41:05:05 – 00:41:09:13
we need to know about your experience and how it can be improved.

00:41:09:15 – 00:41:14:11
And and that for me, is a really it’s quite a vulnerable thing

00:41:14:13 – 00:41:17:16
and a humble thing for businesses to do.

00:41:17:16 – 00:41:21:10
And and that for me is is it we talk when they’re willing to engage

00:41:21:12 – 00:41:24:10
people with lived experience

00:41:24:10 – 00:41:28:00
and not just hey

00:41:28:02 – 00:41:32:08
I always think it’s such a shame when when business says,

00:41:32:08 – 00:41:36:07
well, we’ll take like minimum measurements for how big the bathroom should be.

00:41:36:07 – 00:41:39:23
And I think it’s always because they think that they’re doing the right thing.

00:41:40:00 – 00:41:43:00
It’s what they’re told by designers, architects

00:41:43:02 – 00:41:44:23
and things that they’re actually asking.

00:41:44:23 – 00:41:49:20
Someone with lived experience, well is that doorway actually wide enough, is there enough room

00:41:49:20 – 00:41:52:23
in that bathroom for you and your carer or assistant?

00:41:52:23 – 00:41:55:00
You know,

00:41:55:02 – 00:41:57:00
so actually engaging people with lived

00:41:57:00 – 00:42:01:05
experience, that’s always a big green flag for me.

00:42:01:07 – 00:42:05:09
And yeah, I think

00:42:05:11 – 00:42:09:11
I yeah, green flags when you arrive somewhere

00:42:09:13 – 00:42:14:14
just going in and just is seamless and you just feel,

00:42:14:16 – 00:42:19:05
yeah, you feel like you’ve arrived and there’s no barriers.

00:42:19:05 – 00:42:21:09
But here’s, here’s another thing as well.

00:42:21:09 – 00:42:24:09
You know, I’ve had this happen once and I wish it happened more often

00:42:24:11 – 00:42:28:03
I’ve called business and and asked about their accessibility

00:42:28:03 – 00:42:32:12
and they said look, we’re not, we’re in a listed building

00:42:32:16 – 00:42:35:16
something that we’re looking at, but where we’re not accessible.

00:42:35:17 – 00:42:40:15
However, there is a similar restaurant on blah, blah, blah, street,

00:42:40:17 – 00:42:45:12
and they are accessible.

00:42:45:14 – 00:42:46:01
Yeah.

00:42:46:01 – 00:42:50:04
And that for me is, is if you know that your business

00:42:50:09 – 00:42:54:14
doesn’t meet that person’s needs, have some knowledge about other businesses

00:42:54:14 – 00:42:57:18
in the area because ultimately you losing their business anyway.

00:42:57:21 – 00:43:00:19
It’s not like you’re sending them away, it’s not you know, that person is not going to come

00:43:00:19 – 00:43:04:12
because you’ve just told them it’s not accessible, because you might as well go that next step

00:43:04:12 – 00:43:08:10
and just say, Oh, actually our hotel is not accessible, but

00:43:08:12 – 00:43:11:23
here’s a hotel that is similar or whatever.

00:43:11:23 – 00:43:14:23
And when that happened, I thought, Oh, wow, that’s

00:43:15:00 – 00:43:17:22
that was really I came away from that experience as well,

00:43:17:22 – 00:43:21:01
feeling positive rather than feeling like, Oh God, another place

00:43:21:01 – 00:43:25:06
I can’t go.

00:43:25:08 – 00:43:28:15
They weren’t just saying no, they were saying, we’re not however, try this one.

00:43:28:17 – 00:43:30:09
And I think it wasn’t just like a flat no.

00:43:30:09 – 00:43:33:14
It was it’s a much better way to conduct a conversation

00:43:33:14 – 00:43:37:09
because you’re leaving with another option rather than, okay, where do I go now?

00:43:37:11 – 00:43:40:06
That was really, really good.

00:43:40:06 – 00:43:40:14
Yeah.

00:43:40:14 – 00:43:42:21
And I now have a positive view of that.

00:43:42:21 – 00:43:46:08
Business did not come away with a negative view as you can.

00:43:46:09 – 00:43:49:14
Many of you know I’ve come away with a positive view

00:43:49:14 – 00:43:54:05
and and would recommend them to people who you know you don’t have access needs.

00:43:54:07 – 00:43:54:23
Yeah.

00:43:54:23 – 00:43:56:04
Yeah, yeah, exactly.

00:43:56:04 – 00:43:58:00
I mean that’s really cool I think talking about you know

00:43:58:00 – 00:44:00:03
to say how they recommend another,

00:44:00:03 – 00:44:03:07
that happened to me at one restaurant in particular in Brick Lane in London

00:44:03:07 – 00:44:06:14
looking for a curry and checking where the toilets were.

00:44:06:14 – 00:44:08:04
Most of them were downstairs

00:44:08:04 – 00:44:10:11
and going to each one saying ‘where are they?’ ‘downstairs’.

00:44:10:11 – 00:44:11:13
Okay, you know, thank you.

00:44:11:13 – 00:44:13:11
And in the last one we went into, they were like, no,

00:44:13:11 – 00:44:16:11
but the one across the road down there, they have ok loos.

00:44:16:11 – 00:44:17:23
That’s fine.

00:44:17:23 – 00:44:21:09
And I was just exactly talking about, okay, you don’t have to

00:44:21:11 – 00:44:24:08
gatekeep your business because as you say, like you’re not to go anyway

00:44:24:08 – 00:44:25:23
because it’s not accessible.

00:44:25:23 – 00:44:28:23
So to then actually say no, but that one over there does, that’s really good.

00:44:28:23 – 00:44:30:15
And then you think, Oh yeah, great experience

00:44:30:15 – 00:44:34:04
and you don’t go away feeling negative, you don’t get as exhausted.

00:44:34:05 – 00:44:35:05
I guess in the,

00:44:35:05 – 00:44:38:17
in the kind of like the search for that cafe, restaurant or accommodation

00:44:38:19 – 00:44:40:08
that is really good.

00:44:40:10 – 00:44:40:23
Even just

00:44:40:23 – 00:44:44:07
acknowledging that they have that awareness that it would be an issue.

00:44:44:07 – 00:44:46:09
and therefore maybe have it happened quite a lot.

00:44:46:09 – 00:44:50:09
Maybe so they used to to say to people, No, we’re not, but,

00:44:50:10 – 00:44:51:18
you know, try that place.

00:44:51:18 – 00:44:56:01
But now as a really good that mentality of being open, and just suggesting as well.

00:44:56:01 – 00:44:59:12
It was really good. Yeah, I agree.

00:44:59:14 – 00:45:02:13
It’s about kind of coming away from experiences

00:45:02:13 – 00:45:06:24
feeling that it’s that easy, as you say, that it’s not exhausted

00:45:06:24 – 00:45:10:11
you, that you’re you’re not coming away feeling negative.

00:45:10:11 – 00:45:11:15
It’s yeah.

00:45:11:15 – 00:45:13:22
Whether a place is accessible or not.

00:45:13:22 – 00:45:17:05
You want you want it to feel seamless.

00:45:17:05 – 00:45:19:24
Really. That’s what you want.

00:45:19:24 – 00:45:20:15
Definitely.

00:45:20:15 – 00:45:24:10
I think as you were saying about, you know, but measurements for mobility aid.

00:45:24:12 – 00:45:27:07
It goes back to the thought that no rmobility aid

00:45:27:07 – 00:45:31:13
the same as well, you know, a manual wheelchair some are wider than others or, you know,

00:45:31:15 – 00:45:34:09
a child might be in a manual wheelchair and that’s a lot smaller

00:45:34:09 – 00:45:38:02
or, you know, you need to have one with bigger wheels, one you know, some

00:45:38:08 – 00:45:39:10
you know, you have fixed ones.

00:45:39:10 – 00:45:41:13
So once the wheels come off, they’re built differently.

00:45:41:13 – 00:45:43:20
There isn’t just one type of a wheelchair.

00:45:43:20 – 00:45:47:05
And I’ve had I’ve had ones that aren’t specifically made for me.

00:45:47:10 – 00:45:51:09
And they’re huge, then one other ones are kind of more tailored

00:45:51:09 – 00:45:52:15
and they’re much narrower.

00:45:52:15 – 00:45:53:19
And that is such a good point.

00:45:53:19 – 00:45:57:17
People don’t realize, unless they actually lived with a mobility aid,

00:45:57:19 – 00:46:01:06
or live with somebody who has mobility aid, you know, I think

00:46:01:08 – 00:46:04:17
even just beyond that, even just like in no specific rooms,

00:46:04:17 – 00:46:08:21
but even just like the general floor space of a room or

00:46:08:23 – 00:46:12:09
or a cottage or a bungalow, whatever it is, a lodge that you can just like,

00:46:12:09 – 00:46:16:11
where do you actually park your mobilit aid if you don’t use it all the time?

00:46:16:11 – 00:46:18:14
So like, for me, I would, you know, go it on it.

00:46:18:14 – 00:46:22:00
And I probably like I’d get off it and sit on a sofa and move around a bit.

00:46:22:02 – 00:46:25:22
So where do I park it, is it in the way? and where do I charge it.

00:46:25:23 – 00:46:26:22
because I have to charge it.

00:46:26:22 – 00:46:29:02
You know, it’s got a battery and even that.

00:46:29:02 – 00:46:32:13
So even beyond that thinking where plugs are,

00:46:32:19 – 00:46:33:22
where sockets are to plug in

00:46:33:22 – 00:46:35:17
they behind furniture you know

00:46:35:17 – 00:46:39:22
because if you’re charging a mobility aid or for example I sleep with a ventilator at night

00:46:39:22 – 00:46:44:19
so by the bed there needs to be a table by the bed or a bedside table or something

00:46:44:21 – 00:46:48:09
and there needs to be a plug pretty near to be able to plug it

00:46:48:09 – 00:46:51:24
in and normally in hotels are often they’re not by the bed.

00:46:51:24 – 00:46:53:24
And therefore you have to ask for an extension lead

00:46:53:24 – 00:46:56:01
And they always do give you one, but it’s that sort of thing.

00:46:56:01 – 00:46:59:17
those are other things you have to think about.

00:46:59:17 – 00:47:01:08
You wouldn’t necessarily normally think about someone

00:47:01:08 – 00:47:05:02
who didn’t have to charge a mobility aid, didn’t have to sleep with a ventilator,

00:47:05:04 – 00:47:07:02
wouldn’t necessarily think about it or go hang

00:47:07:02 – 00:47:10:21
And it is like no space even for a chair by the bed.

00:47:10:23 – 00:47:13:14
So I have to share the bed with this huge machine

00:47:13:14 – 00:47:17:00
and I’m like cramped up beside it’s not ideal.

00:47:17:02 – 00:47:20:10
Those are those added things as well like photos of things

00:47:20:10 – 00:47:23:23
and even a statement saying, you know, we have plugs accessible,

00:47:24:00 – 00:47:26:08
you know, not behind furniture, even that sort of thing.

00:47:26:08 – 00:47:29:17
It’s just like so and even in terms of leaving reviews saying

00:47:29:17 – 00:47:33:08
the plugs were at a decent height, did not bend down, not too low.

00:47:33:13 – 00:47:35:10
And that’s where the review stage can come in.

00:47:35:10 – 00:47:39:20
And if people take photos and make reviews with photos, all of that helps

00:47:39:22 – 00:47:42:04
for the next person.

00:47:42:06 – 00:47:43:03
It definitely does.

00:47:43:03 – 00:47:43:23
Definitely does.

00:47:43:23 – 00:47:47:04
One thing I find thinking about like I saw says, you know,

00:47:47:06 – 00:47:51:07
turning space, for example, in the manual wheelchair you just turn on the spot.

00:47:51:09 – 00:47:55:05
And I often think to myself, you know some you know there are some power chairs

00:47:55:05 – 00:48:00:20
that turn on the spot but not not many usually there’s a know

00:48:00:22 – 00:48:03:07
turning cycle involved and I think, wow,

00:48:03:07 – 00:48:06:12
how are people expected to manouver around the furniture

00:48:06:14 – 00:48:09:14
Or a big thing to me is getting to the curtains

00:48:09:17 – 00:48:13:10
and being able to open and close the curtains and the window

00:48:13:12 – 00:48:14:10
quite often I can’t

00:48:14:10 – 00:48:16:10
Yeah, and I’ve often stayed in a hotel room and

00:48:16:10 – 00:48:22:07
gone down to the bar and I was like, I can’t do that.

00:48:22:08 – 00:48:24:19
Yeah, that’s just really odd,

00:48:24:21 – 00:48:26:09
I can’t even open the curtains here.

00:48:26:09 – 00:48:27:04
Yeah. Yeah.

00:48:27:04 – 00:48:28:17
So there’s lots of little things.

00:48:28:17 – 00:48:32:11
And I think what everybody needs is, is different, as you say,

00:48:32:11 – 00:48:36:13
you know, and I think we all leave reviews about what’s important to us.

00:48:36:13 – 00:48:39:07
Then it builds a bigger picture

00:48:39:07 – 00:48:41:12
of what things are like.

00:48:41:12 – 00:48:41:21
Definitely.

00:48:41:21 – 00:48:44:21
And if you have that energy and that capacity to do so, it it does really help.

00:48:45:00 – 00:48:46:05
But it doesn’t have to be.

00:48:46:05 – 00:48:48:03
You know, reviews are often thought about in a negative way.

00:48:48:03 – 00:48:51:05
They don’t have to be the negative reviews of you could do this better.

00:48:51:07 – 00:48:52:06
It is in a positive way.

00:48:52:06 – 00:48:56:10
This is great and for anyone looking in this same situation, you know,

00:48:56:10 – 00:49:00:06
even just beyond disability, it’s good for dogs, we travel with dogs

00:49:00:08 – 00:49:02:07
So therefore, yeah, there’s a park nearby.

00:49:02:07 – 00:49:04:20
walk the dogs in, that sort of thing.

00:49:04:20 – 00:49:08:13
It is really good and I think that yeah, it’s all about,

00:49:08:13 – 00:49:09:14
you know, unique experience.

00:49:09:14 – 00:49:12:07
And the more people who do have the different

00:49:12:07 – 00:49:15:07
experiences to be able to leave those comments is really, really good.

00:49:15:10 – 00:49:20:09
And yeah, so in terms of you said already that you reckon that the

00:49:20:11 – 00:49:24:00
individually owned places to better than the larger companies

00:49:24:00 – 00:49:27:10
I guess at their personal experience is better

00:49:27:12 – 00:49:29:09
can you expand on that a bit more.

00:49:29:09 – 00:49:31:20
Yeah. I think often

00:49:31:20 – 00:49:37:14
the big business is a quite faceless, you know, the person you’re speaking to

00:49:37:19 – 00:49:41:19
is not the person who makes the decision about the building

00:49:41:19 – 00:49:44:10
and about how accessible it is and about procedures and policies.

00:49:44:10 – 00:49:49:02
Yeah, the person you’re speaking to is somebody who works

00:49:49:02 – 00:49:53:14
and the receptionist manages the housekeeping team or whatever.

00:49:53:16 – 00:49:57:00
Whereas when you’re dealing with small businesses,

00:49:57:00 – 00:50:01:03
some family run businesses, you are speaking to the person who makes the decisions

00:50:01:05 – 00:50:04:13
and I think as well, a lot of people

00:50:04:16 – 00:50:08:12
who go into the business of providing accessible accommodation

00:50:08:14 – 00:50:13:07
often have on a small scale, often have experience of it themselves.

00:50:13:09 – 00:50:17:07
It might be, you know, somebody in their family or or a friend

00:50:17:07 – 00:50:21:20
or something like that, and that that’s where and that drive

00:50:21:20 – 00:50:24:18
to provide this accommodation comes from in the first place.

00:50:24:18 – 00:50:29:14
So there is already a level of knowledge about it.

00:50:29:16 – 00:50:30:07
So I think

00:50:30:07 – 00:50:34:20
that’s that’s often why whereas I think sometimes the, the big

00:50:34:22 – 00:50:37:07
faceless corporations there

00:50:37:07 – 00:50:41:01
and that drive to do it is because it’s a legal requirement

00:50:41:01 – 00:50:45:08
in hotels, you know, and you can, you can feel sometimes

00:50:45:08 – 00:50:49:05
like it’s been an afterthought or so you’ve got to tick that box here.

00:50:49:05 – 00:50:53:04
We have an accessible room, but all is is really it’s a room on the ground floor

00:50:53:07 – 00:50:57:15
with some, you know, a shower chair and some rails and the bathroom.

00:50:57:17 – 00:51:00:11
And that’s about as far as it goes.

00:51:00:11 – 00:51:02:14
And and yeah, that’s great for some people.

00:51:02:14 – 00:51:06:12
That’s all for people need, you know,

00:51:06:14 – 00:51:08:11
but for others, they need a lot more.

00:51:08:11 – 00:51:12:13
And if you’re just doing it to tick boxes, your heart’s not in the right place.

00:51:12:15 – 00:51:16:23
And whereas I think a lot of people who have small businesses

00:51:16:23 – 00:51:17:23
and family run businesses,

00:51:17:23 – 00:51:22:07
that their heart is in the right place and they want to do it.

00:51:22:07 – 00:51:26:23
And as well, they’re meeting the people who come and stay at their accommodation.

00:51:26:23 – 00:51:30:11
And it is it is much more personal.

00:51:30:13 – 00:51:32:19
I’ve had some great experiences

00:51:32:19 – 00:51:37:00
and one place I went along to and

00:51:37:02 – 00:51:37:17
and I said, look,

00:51:37:17 – 00:51:41:13
you know, your door thresholds are too high.

00:51:41:15 – 00:51:45:09
I was struggling and explained about how with wheelchairs as well.

00:51:45:09 – 00:51:46:24
It was really difficult.

00:51:46:24 – 00:51:48:14
So this is right, great.

00:51:48:14 – 00:51:53:20
And there were some fire door things and they went away and got ramps for it and

00:51:53:22 – 00:51:56:13
sent me photos and said “look here it is”

00:51:56:13 – 00:51:59:13
And you know, what do you think of this? it is looking ok?

00:51:59:16 – 00:52:00:16
And that was great.

00:52:00:16 – 00:52:04:00
Another place to stay is it’s not, not an accessible place, but

00:52:04:02 – 00:52:10:24
it was a point where I could kind of manage more and they invited me back to do

00:52:11:01 – 00:52:13:20
a more comprehensive accessibility report,

00:52:13:20 – 00:52:17:14
like a lived experience accessibility report with some recommendations.

00:52:17:14 – 00:52:21:18
And and they are currently in the process

00:52:21:18 – 00:52:27:22
of expanding that non-accessible accommodation into an accessible accommodation. So

00:52:27:24 – 00:52:30:03
yeah, so I think that’s

00:52:30:03 – 00:52:33:11
when people are willing to engage

00:52:33:13 – 00:52:36:16
people with lived experience, pay people with lived experience.

00:52:36:22 – 00:52:38:15
I think that shows that they are

00:52:38:15 – 00:52:43:00
really very keen on making improvements and that their heart is in the place.

00:52:43:02 – 00:52:46:02
Definitely and not making that assumption and saying

00:52:46:03 – 00:52:49:06
okay, that’s it, that’s accessible, box tick.

00:52:49:06 – 00:52:52:06
So we’re going to guidelines of why, you know, X, Y and Z, Right.

00:52:52:06 – 00:52:53:03
Okay, perfect.

00:52:53:03 – 00:52:57:01
So that assumption that what they do will work everybody and that’s why

00:52:57:02 – 00:52:58:19
to bring in different people

00:52:58:19 – 00:53:01:21
and embracing our opinion, especially if you’ve actually stayed there before

00:53:01:21 – 00:53:05:11
they actually we could really utilize your lived experience

00:53:05:13 – 00:53:06:16
and there’s nothing wrong with that.

00:53:06:16 – 00:53:08:01
It’s only when it’s going to be done properly.

00:53:08:01 – 00:53:09:18
And going to be done right.

00:53:09:18 – 00:53:12:18
And as you say about hotels with accessible rooms, you know, it’s

00:53:12:18 – 00:53:16:22
got the wet room, it’s got X Y Z. I don’t know if you’ve ever noticed

00:53:16:23 – 00:53:21:17
but what I’ve noticed is that in accessible rooms in hotels, it’s always a double bed.

00:53:21:19 – 00:53:24:04
I don’t have ever had an accessible room

00:53:24:04 – 00:53:27:18
which has had twin beds and I travel with my mum and I.

00:53:27:18 – 00:53:30:18
We’re fine to share a bed, but if you have a carer or a PA

00:53:30:22 – 00:53:33:16
or even a friend, that means you’re forced to share a

00:53:33:16 – 00:53:37:13
or buy another room which then brings the cost up.

00:53:37:15 – 00:53:41:15
And I think that’s really strange that that always double beds.

00:53:41:17 – 00:53:45:07
This is really strange because I, I had the opposite experience.

00:53:45:10 – 00:53:47:13
Oh really? Yeah.

00:53:47:13 – 00:53:50:14
So I often go in like, because I’m traveling with my wife,

00:53:50:17 – 00:53:53:22
you know, romantic weekends away and you turn up.

00:53:53:22 – 00:53:56:11
It is like twin beds. Okay.

00:53:56:11 – 00:53:59:19
And but I do find now a lot of hotels

00:53:59:19 – 00:54:02:19
have the zip link beds

00:54:02:24 – 00:54:06:05
where they can be zipped apart, you know, And I think it’s important for them

00:54:06:06 – 00:54:09:24
to mention that and say, look, do you want these made up two singles or do you

00:54:09:24 – 00:54:12:03
want them made up as a double? You know,

00:54:12:05 – 00:54:14:18
and I also think providing

00:54:14:18 – 00:54:18:17
connecting rooms is really helpful if somebody has an assistant with them.

00:54:18:19 – 00:54:21:20
And I think those rooms this is my opinion anyway,

00:54:21:24 – 00:54:24:20
those rooms should be given a heavily reduced rate.

00:54:24:20 – 00:54:27:07
But that’s, you

00:54:27:07 – 00:54:28:17
you don’t necessarily always want

00:54:28:17 – 00:54:32:15
to be forced to share a room with somebody because of financials,

00:54:32:17 – 00:54:36:21
the disability tax is a huge issue and paying more for it or anything.

00:54:36:21 – 00:54:38:11
So having to pay for

00:54:38:11 – 00:54:41:04
Another room at full price is a lot.

00:54:41:04 – 00:54:42:15
and You know how a concert tickets,

00:54:42:15 – 00:54:45:21
if you’re going with a carer or PA or another person

00:54:45:21 – 00:54:48:21
and you got a reduced rate ticket or even a free ticket very often.

00:54:48:21 – 00:54:49:02
Yeah.

00:54:49:02 – 00:54:52:02
But the venues so that should be the same.

00:54:52:05 – 00:54:56:07
The thing of the hotel that I should be like a discount or well some way of Yeah.

00:54:56:07 – 00:55:00:08
Reducing bring that cost down because you don’t always have to have to share

00:55:00:10 – 00:55:05:10
with somebody who isn’t family or a partner or spouse.

00:55:05:12 – 00:55:06:13
So that’s another good point as well.

00:55:06:13 – 00:55:10:00
So there should be that leeway for it, but the definitley interconnecting

00:55:10:00 – 00:55:10:20
rooms is really good.

00:55:10:20 – 00:55:14:07
I think often we’ve had that with my grandparents and their room was connected

00:55:14:07 – 00:55:17:16
so that they’re quite elderly, so then, you know, they don’t need anything.

00:55:17:16 – 00:55:20:07
But if there was a problem we could, you know, go in

00:55:20:07 – 00:55:24:00
and that sort of thing really, really good and having that ability to have that.

00:55:24:00 – 00:55:27:16
But that often relies on the bigger hotels or bigger

00:55:27:18 – 00:55:31:18
kind of like venues to have that on offer but I think these are all

00:55:31:20 – 00:55:35:16
things to consider having that versitility as you say about those zip and link beds

00:55:35:16 – 00:55:40:10
having the option so you’re not forced to either having only twin or only double

00:55:40:12 – 00:55:43:00
it is yeah.

00:55:43:00 – 00:55:46:00
Especially when it comes to accessibility having variation

00:55:46:03 – 00:55:50:07
so that you can adapt your accessibility measures and accommodations

00:55:50:09 – 00:55:55:02
into what works for each unique person coming to stay rather than having

00:55:55:02 – 00:55:59:01
to stay this is the only kind of accommodation accessability things we have.

00:55:59:06 – 00:56:01:02
But actually you have all these different things.

00:56:01:02 – 00:56:04:15
How can we adapt these things to suit your needs?

00:56:04:17 – 00:56:08:10
Yes, yes, I think I have places that have lots of different equipment to hire

00:56:08:16 – 00:56:11:13
are amazing because, you know, being able to say,

00:56:11:13 – 00:56:14:20
you know, do you need a hoist?

00:56:14:22 – 00:56:16:17
I mean, the amount of equipment

00:56:16:17 – 00:56:20:06
that disabled have to travel with a lot of the time is unreal.

00:56:20:12 – 00:56:26:05
So being able to say, all right, okay, I don’t need to bring a hoist or arrange

00:56:26:07 – 00:56:30:10
what you need to pay for one to be reliant on that.

00:56:30:12 – 00:56:31:03
Yeah.

00:56:31:03 – 00:56:32:12
You know, having those there

00:56:32:12 – 00:56:35:22
or different options of shower chairs and things like that, just have it.

00:56:35:22 – 00:56:39:20
Having things like that make a space adaptable

00:56:39:20 – 00:56:42:20
to just having the equipment available.

00:56:42:20 – 00:56:45:14
Definitely it makes it accessible for everybody, you know?

00:56:45:14 – 00:56:47:23
not just certain disabilities

00:56:48:00 – 00:56:49:19
that’s the whole thing with,

00:56:49:19 – 00:56:51:00
everything is bit like you and I.

00:56:51:00 – 00:56:53:04
We both have physical disabilities, but they’re different.

00:56:53:04 – 00:56:53:19
Yeah, Yeah.

00:56:53:19 – 00:56:56:19
Even someone with the same condition that I have

00:56:57:00 – 00:56:58:03
Muscular Dystrophy, the same strain everything.

00:56:58:03 – 00:57:03:07
We are so different, you know, And that’s just how it is.

00:57:03:09 – 00:57:04:23
And also people have different

00:57:04:23 – 00:57:07:22
I guess people’s priorities of their needs are different as well.

00:57:07:22 – 00:57:13:03
So even if it’s not on a base level of ramp and access,

00:57:13:05 – 00:57:16:18
other needs are different because of it varies person to person.

00:57:16:20 – 00:57:19:23
And I think that’s also a really kind of key thing to understand

00:57:19:23 – 00:57:24:01
is not just the one type, but that’s something that society, you know,

00:57:24:03 – 00:57:28:08
gradually kind of I think being more aware of it’s not just disability

00:57:28:12 – 00:57:32:23
is that certain thing, kind of like every type of person.

00:57:33:00 – 00:57:34:02
Yes, definitely.

00:57:34:02 – 00:57:36:06
Yeah, absolutely.

00:57:36:06 – 00:57:38:20
Yeah. So we’ve heard about your blog.

00:57:38:20 – 00:57:39:15
Can you tell us a bit more

00:57:39:15 – 00:57:43:11
about Accessible Holiday Scotland because you’re a co-founder of that.

00:57:43:13 – 00:57:46:24
Let’s hear a bit more about about that.

00:57:47:01 – 00:57:47:12
Yeah.

00:57:47:12 – 00:57:50:12
So Accessible Holiday Scotland is is probably

00:57:50:12 – 00:57:54:16
the more formal wing of things so

00:57:54:18 – 00:57:58:09
you know I really enjoy doing the blog and the and the Instagram

00:57:58:09 – 00:58:01:17
stuff and sharing information in that casual, informal way.

00:58:01:17 – 00:58:04:22
But as somebody who likes to research stuff,

00:58:04:24 – 00:58:09:15
I recognize the importance of having information

00:58:09:15 – 00:58:12:17
all in one place in a format that’s easy to access.

00:58:12:23 – 00:58:15:01
So it’s, you know, it’s slowly building up.

00:58:15:01 – 00:58:16:03
It’s it’s early days.

00:58:16:03 – 00:58:19:11
So that the idea is that it’s a database

00:58:19:11 – 00:58:23:09
of accessible tourism experiences

00:58:23:11 – 00:58:27:05
within Scotland, so that that includes

00:58:27:07 – 00:58:29:17
accommodation, days out

00:58:29:17 – 00:58:34:05
shopping and things to do.

00:58:34:07 – 00:58:38:16
And it’s just having a database that that you can search and that you can tick

00:58:38:18 – 00:58:42:11
what your accessibility needs are, say, searching in accommodation.

00:58:42:12 – 00:58:45:09
You go, okay, right, well, I’m going to need a hoist.

00:58:45:09 – 00:58:47:18
I’m gonna need

00:58:47:20 – 00:58:51:07
a shower chair, I’m going to need whatever

00:58:51:07 – 00:58:55:09
And you can tick those and filter out all the stuff that isn’t relevant.

00:58:55:11 – 00:59:01:24
And I think the aim with it is just to save people time and energy

00:59:02:05 – 00:59:05:24
in searching for things and providing

00:59:06:01 – 00:59:09:06
decent descriptions of what to expect there as well.

00:59:09:08 – 00:59:11:10
And photographs

00:59:11:10 – 00:59:13:09
and links to access guides.

00:59:13:09 – 00:59:16:09
And it’s just having it all in one place.

00:59:16:14 – 00:59:19:08
I’m really, you know, I’m really passionate about traveling around Scotland

00:59:19:08 – 00:59:25:04
and and the places that you can experience and sadly it’s not always easy.

00:59:25:06 – 00:59:28:06
And I think it’s

00:59:28:07 – 00:59:31:23
that some of the bigger tourism organizations in Scotland,

00:59:32:00 – 00:59:35:07
places are becoming more aware and

00:59:35:09 – 00:59:38:13
and they are sharing more information.

00:59:38:13 – 00:59:40:15
But it can be very hit and miss.

00:59:40:15 – 00:59:45:07
Yeah I remember searching on one one big website was for accessible

00:59:45:07 – 00:59:49:09
accommodation that was loads of wheelchair accessible accommodation

00:59:49:11 – 00:59:53:00
and it turned out it was accommodation that you could literally wheel into.

00:59:53:00 – 00:59:56:08
But the bedrooms were, upstairs, or you know,

00:59:56:13 – 00:59:58:01
you could wheel in the front door

00:59:58:01 – 01:00:01:21
and you know, you could get to the kitchen but not to the bathroom and you know

01:00:02:01 – 01:00:06:20
So it’s I think having having something

01:00:06:22 – 01:00:11:24
that has the input of a disabled person at the moment and hopefully in the future,

01:00:12:03 – 01:00:16:19
more disabled people having input from people at that is really valuable.

01:00:16:19 – 01:00:19:02
It makes it

01:00:19:04 – 01:00:20:02
to me when I

01:00:20:02 – 01:00:23:24
find things like that, it it’s comforting, it’s reassuring.

01:00:24:01 – 01:00:27:23
I think that it’s information that’s being provided by somebody

01:00:27:23 – 01:00:33:09
who knows what my experiences and knows what I need to know.

01:00:33:11 – 01:00:35:16
So yeah, just trying to provide that for Scotland.

01:00:35:16 – 01:00:37:11
And it’s myself and my wife.

01:00:37:11 – 01:00:39:11
We’re running it together.

01:00:39:11 – 01:00:40:05
Yeah. Yeah.

01:00:40:05 – 01:00:43:05
It shows that you,

01:00:43:10 – 01:00:43:20
you know,

01:00:43:20 – 01:00:46:02
whenever you find something like that, it’s been really been like the way

01:00:46:02 – 01:00:47:22
it’s been done on your behalf

01:00:47:22 – 01:00:50:05
and for you to show that someone cares enough

01:00:50:05 – 01:00:52:08
that they’ve experienced something that you are going to experience

01:00:52:08 – 01:00:55:08
or you have experienced, and the fact they actually cared enough

01:00:55:14 – 01:00:59:16
make it available to share that knowledge that you’ve with, even,

01:00:59:16 – 01:01:01:05
you know, just by travelling around

01:01:01:05 – 01:01:04:23
disabled people we acquire so much knowledge of, you know, where’s good,

01:01:04:23 – 01:01:09:01
where’s accessible where isn’t, and tips and tricks of how to make life easier.

01:01:09:01 – 01:01:12:05
So the fact you’re then using and sharing that knowledge that you’ve acquired

01:01:12:05 – 01:01:13:02
is just so amazing.

01:01:13:02 – 01:01:16:20
And definitely I think that Scotland is such an amazing, beautiful place.

01:01:16:22 – 01:01:18:09
And I think you think about it.

01:01:18:09 – 01:01:19:17
You think, Oh, maybe there is

01:01:19:17 – 01:01:22:09
not much in terms of accessibility, but to know that there is,

01:01:22:09 – 01:01:25:06
your sites created and designated just to highlighting those amazing places

01:01:25:06 – 01:01:28:08
that are accessible and that people can come and enjoy, and enjoy

01:01:28:08 – 01:01:29:13
Scotland, I think is incredible.

01:01:29:13 – 01:01:33:10
So thank you so much for providing that and the blog is I love the Blog as well

01:01:33:12 – 01:01:37:17
about you offer some information on the different types attractions around

01:01:37:19 – 01:01:38:15
Scotland.

01:01:38:15 – 01:01:42:07
It’s not just about accommodation, it’s about all sorts of things, and that’s like

01:01:42:09 – 01:01:45:14
So if you actually arrive somewhere, you know where else you can go and do

01:01:45:16 – 01:01:49:09
in the area that will be accessible as well, that’s really, really great.

01:01:49:11 – 01:01:49:20
Yeah.

01:01:49:20 – 01:01:54:16
I think I would love in the future to expand it and include

01:01:54:16 – 01:01:58:18
itinerary planning for people because I think that can be a big thing.

01:01:58:20 – 01:02:02:11
You know, finding the right accommodation is one part of the battle.

01:02:02:16 – 01:02:05:17
And as we mentioned earlier, it is then finding out what the accessibility

01:02:05:17 – 01:02:09:00
like in the local towns where can I go eat, go the toilet.

01:02:09:02 – 01:02:10:03
You know, it’s all this kind of stuff.

01:02:10:03 – 01:02:14:10
So I think I would love in the future to develop it to provide,

01:02:14:12 – 01:02:18:13
yeah, itinerary planning that’s individual for that person

01:02:18:15 – 01:02:21:19
to say, okay, well these your access needs.

01:02:21:21 – 01:02:24:03
What can we find for you to?

01:02:24:03 – 01:02:26:13
You know, these are you access needs and your interests.

01:02:26:13 – 01:02:30:00
What can we find for you to do in this area

01:02:30:04 – 01:02:31:04
that’s right.

01:02:31:04 – 01:02:34:09
And if that area doesn’t have enough opportunities, what other area

01:02:34:09 – 01:02:37:09
could we find that’s somewhere that you might that you might enjoy as well?

01:02:37:10 – 01:02:40:14
And just being able to hand someone over an itinerary

01:02:40:14 – 01:02:43:23
and just say, Right, just go enjoy yourself.

01:02:44:00 – 01:02:44:07
Yeah.

01:02:44:07 – 01:02:47:14
And I think also an agenda of what you can do, obviously, like, you know,

01:02:47:18 – 01:02:51:03
go on holiday on your own, whether it’s with a family, if you’ve got children,

01:02:51:05 – 01:02:54:11
if you go with, you know, different age groups, to actually know

01:02:54:11 – 01:02:58:07
that you could all go to enjoy something together rather than, okay, well,

01:02:58:07 – 01:02:59:19
we want to do this, but you can’t get in there

01:02:59:19 – 01:03:03:10
so you could say stay behind. So that’s really good to know

01:03:03:12 – 01:03:05:19
so there are things you can go do as a group

01:03:05:19 – 01:03:09:02
that is going to be actually accessible for everybody in terms of interest

01:03:09:04 – 01:03:11:23
and activity is really also a really good point.

01:03:11:23 – 01:03:16:02
As you just it’s not just about us in a way, especially on holiday

01:03:16:02 – 01:03:18:20
You need to also be able to not get left behind

01:03:18:20 – 01:03:22:15
or not feel like you only do activities that suit you.

01:03:22:17 – 01:03:23:13
I think that’s also really good.

01:03:23:13 – 01:03:26:18
Good to kind of be able to have that so everyone is going to be able to enjoy

01:03:26:20 – 01:03:28:19
and access themselves as well.

01:03:28:19 – 01:03:31:11
So it’s really good to definitely and that it’s a pretty good idea

01:03:31:11 – 01:03:34:08
of knowing what else you can do in different places.

01:03:34:08 – 01:03:36:22
And yeah, sounds really amazing.

01:03:36:22 – 01:03:41:01
Yeah and if you’re looking for a romantic weekend away or you’re looking for

01:03:41:03 – 01:03:43:02
something of adventurous or are you looking for a family

01:03:43:02 – 01:03:47:19
family experience and just and just try and put that together.

01:03:47:21 – 01:03:51:03
That’s a big job. There’s a lot of work to do

01:03:51:05 – 01:03:54:18
and yeah quite a busy person but it’s definitely

01:03:54:18 – 01:03:59:22
that is on the on the list of things that I’d love to expand to.

01:03:59:24 – 01:04:02:20
Yeah I think there’s like so many there’s so many famous

01:04:02:20 – 01:04:06:16
people influencers who are getting gifted holidays and amazing places.

01:04:06:16 – 01:04:10:10
I think that really should be expanded to disbaled people to and disabled influencers,

01:04:10:13 – 01:04:13:14
to gift them the holidays and you know, rather than you having

01:04:13:14 – 01:04:17:03
to use your own money in your resources to trying out these places

01:04:17:03 – 01:04:18:11
to be able to create,

01:04:18:11 – 01:04:23:00
you know, your database of of of options then have companies, go right,

01:04:23:01 – 01:04:23:16
Right. Okay.

01:04:23:16 – 01:04:28:09
We’re going to pay you to come and post about how amazing our venue is.

01:04:28:11 – 01:04:28:22
Yeah.

01:04:28:22 – 01:04:29:24
It shouldn’t be

01:04:29:24 – 01:04:31:12
so shouldn’t be just about

01:04:31:12 – 01:04:34:01
come and stay for free because we want to use your knowledge

01:04:34:01 – 01:04:37:02
and obviously that’s fine as well but also to be Yeah we’re going to,

01:04:37:02 – 01:04:39:01
you know Thomas Cook or whoever it is to offer

01:04:39:01 – 01:04:41:06
these people these amazing holidays, yeah just come

01:04:41:06 – 01:04:43:12
and you can write about the fact that we are accessible

01:04:43:12 – 01:04:46:24
the fact that our pool has a hoist into it, anything like that.

01:04:47:01 – 01:04:49:02
You know, And I think that would also be really good

01:04:49:02 – 01:04:52:05
just because I think so may more people will see it as well.

01:04:52:05 – 01:04:55:05
I think the more that people are able to post about it

01:04:55:05 – 01:04:58:06
with companies like proudly announced that they are accessible,

01:04:58:11 – 01:04:59:07
it was really good as well.

01:04:59:07 – 01:05:01:03
I shouldn’t be up to us

01:05:01:03 – 01:05:05:01
to use our money to explore these places, in a way,

01:05:05:01 – 01:05:06:15
it kind of should be up to the companies

01:05:06:15 – 01:05:09:01
to also go, Hey, you know, we’re going to pay for you

01:05:09:01 – 01:05:11:04
and your and your family or whoever to go on a trip.

01:05:11:04 – 01:05:14:01
And yeah, tell us about accessibility needs.

01:05:14:01 – 01:05:17:18
And then also at the same time, maybe not publicly, but behind the scenes tell us

01:05:17:20 – 01:05:19:11
what could be improved.

01:05:19:11 – 01:05:22:10
I think there should a huge sector of the influencer of market

01:05:22:10 – 01:05:23:16
that could be

01:05:23:16 – 01:05:27:14
could be used for companies to get disabled travelers and

01:05:27:16 – 01:05:31:12
and people to actually get in the door and announce and be proud to know

01:05:31:12 – 01:05:35:07
because they going to get more bookings if they people people know that accessible

01:05:35:07 – 01:05:35:16
as well.

01:05:35:16 – 01:05:37:11
So it’s a win win for them.

01:05:37:11 – 01:05:40:15
Exactly I think I think sometimes

01:05:40:17 – 01:05:41:10
with a lot of

01:05:41:10 – 01:05:45:05
businesses, I think they have such a strong style.

01:05:45:05 – 01:05:49:15
They have such especially these really instagrammable kind of kind of places.

01:05:49:15 – 01:05:51:16
There’s such a strong sense of style.

01:05:51:16 – 01:05:56:06
And I think for some reason they feel that disability doesn’t fit in with that.

01:05:56:08 – 01:06:00:14
And it’s like, but have you been on Instagram and looked

01:06:00:14 – 01:06:02:18
at some of the disabled influencers out there?

01:06:02:18 – 01:06:07:23
I mean, like there are some like stunningly beautiful stylish people

01:06:07:23 – 01:06:13:01
who are like creative and interesting and intelligent and, you know,

01:06:13:03 – 01:06:16:05
and you could be engaging these people and

01:06:16:06 – 01:06:20:02
and as you say, open up to a whole, whole different market.

01:06:20:02 – 01:06:24:10
But yes, I think businesses need to start

01:06:24:12 – 01:06:29:06
doing disability differently, not as something that Yeah,

01:06:29:06 – 01:06:33:09
not something that’s like, well, it’s not really the look that we’re going for.

01:06:33:09 – 01:06:37:23
It’s like, yeah, but it can be if you, you know,

01:06:38:00 – 01:06:41:23
if you, if you make it happen and, and as you say, I think that

01:06:42:00 – 01:06:46:02
it shouldn’t be up to disabled people to use our own money to go

01:06:46:04 – 01:06:49:04
and review these places and put that information out there.

01:06:49:08 – 01:06:53:02
And I don’t think any disabled person should be out of pocket

01:06:53:04 – 01:06:55:20
for any work that they do.

01:06:55:22 – 01:06:56:22
And I think

01:06:56:22 – 01:07:02:04
disabled people deserve to be properly reimbursed for their work as well,

01:07:02:04 – 01:07:07:23
because going away and and doing a review, you know, a free stay is is

01:07:08:00 – 01:07:12:15
is fantastic and for a lot of people that that would be

01:07:12:17 – 01:07:13:06
enough.

01:07:13:06 – 01:07:15:09
But at the end of the day, it doesn’t pay the bills.

01:07:15:09 – 01:07:18:19
And for some people this is a this is a career and

01:07:18:21 – 01:07:23:11
and as we all know, that disability is is an expensive thing.

01:07:23:13 – 01:07:27:04
So to be properly reimbursed for the putting the work and

01:07:27:06 – 01:07:31:22
and giving such valuable feedback and advertising, promotion.

01:07:31:22 – 01:07:33:12
You know it’s a whole package

01:07:33:12 – 01:07:38:24
that that should be looked at as as a job not as a as a favor.

01:07:39:01 – 01:07:39:10
Definitely.

01:07:39:10 – 01:07:43:00
I feel like if I saw, you know, disabled influencer or someone

01:07:43:05 – 01:07:46:01
of high profile on Instagram, a creator etc

01:07:46:03 – 01:07:47:17
with a disability, posting about

01:07:47:17 – 01:07:52:02
somewhere amazing that’s accessible, I’d be far more likely to book that holiday

01:07:52:04 – 01:07:56:07
than if I saw an ex LoveIsland person or whatever

01:07:56:08 – 01:08:00:12
I wouldn’t be interested, but actually seeing someone with first hand experience

01:08:00:12 – 01:08:02:15
of knowing that it really would be okay

01:08:02:15 – 01:08:05:04
to be far more likely to be like, wow, actually, yeah.

01:08:05:04 – 01:08:08:21
And seeing, seeing how someone with a disability

01:08:08:23 – 01:08:12:10
like portrays and represents the venue through

01:08:12:10 – 01:08:16:03
photos of things through their own eyes, because it’s a different perspective as well.

01:08:16:03 – 01:08:16:18
So definitely

01:08:16:18 – 01:08:22:01
I think it is a missed trick out there anyone who’s in big company.

01:08:22:03 – 01:08:22:18
But no, definitely.

01:08:22:18 – 01:08:26:01
I think that also the fact that disabled people, we want to go on holiday,

01:08:26:01 – 01:08:30:00
we want to travel and whether that’s just within our own country

01:08:30:00 – 01:08:33:00
if that’s because flying is not an option

01:08:33:04 – 01:08:36:11
or if it is abroad to amazing places, we still want to travel, there’s no reason

01:08:36:11 – 01:08:40:16
that we don’t have that same desire for a holiday to visit, places to travel,

01:08:40:16 – 01:08:44:08
to explore new experiences, new cultures, but just the same as everybody else

01:08:44:08 – 01:08:45:17
in that aspect.

01:08:45:17 – 01:08:48:22
And I guess the reason why people don’t is because of access

01:08:48:24 – 01:08:52:23
and because of the lack of information available, the lack of awareness.

01:08:53:00 – 01:08:57:06
So yeah, we want to travel and we want to explore places just as much

01:08:57:06 – 01:08:59:02
as everybody else.

01:08:59:02 – 01:09:02:11
Agreed. I always say that the biggest barrier to travel

01:09:02:11 – 01:09:06:17
for me is lack of information, that that is the biggest

01:09:06:19 – 01:09:09:19
barrier is just the lack of information there.

01:09:09:19 – 01:09:12:11
But just quickly on the

01:09:12:11 – 01:09:16:09
you know, on influencers sharing about their holidays,

01:09:16:14 – 01:09:21:04
I think one thing that we can do as disabled people is really support

01:09:21:06 – 01:09:23:03
other people who are sharing these kind of things

01:09:23:03 – 01:09:25:22
there’s a great community of disabled travel bloggers,

01:09:25:22 – 01:09:29:00
and if we’re all making sure that we’re going in and commenting, liking, saying

01:09:29:05 – 01:09:32:05
well done, this is amazing because the more engagement

01:09:32:09 – 01:09:34:23
that happens on these post, the more likely these businesses

01:09:34:23 – 01:09:37:23
are to continue engaging disabled people.

01:09:37:24 – 01:09:40:20
We need to make sure that they realize that there’s that some

01:09:40:20 – 01:09:44:14
an audience out there in the market.

01:09:44:16 – 01:09:44:23
Yeah.

01:09:44:23 – 01:09:45:10
And that

01:09:45:10 – 01:09:48:10
it’s actually content that we want to see as well

01:09:48:14 – 01:09:50:13
and we want to see those people travel to different places.

01:09:50:13 – 01:09:52:05
And definitely I think we as a very good point

01:09:52:05 – 01:09:55:23
to support those, seeing those posts and supporting them because

01:09:56:00 – 01:09:57:06
the more interaction they get then

01:09:57:06 – 01:09:59:09
the more that these companies will go actually it its worthwhile

01:09:59:09 – 01:10:04:20
and clearly disabled people obviously are interested in that because they

01:10:04:22 – 01:10:05:20
don’t think that we actually are,

01:10:05:20 – 01:10:09:24
but even if we don’t travel ourselves is still lovely

01:10:09:24 – 01:10:12:24
we still enjoy seeing, you know, other people

01:10:12:24 – 01:10:16:02
traveling and seeing, you know, pictures of beautiful places on Instagram.

01:10:16:05 – 01:10:18:00
Things we still enjoy consuming.

01:10:18:00 – 01:10:20:06
Yeah, yeah, definitely.

01:10:20:06 – 01:10:21:17
Yeah, yeah.

01:10:21:17 – 01:10:25:04
So this has been really great, to finish up what would you say is the

01:10:25:06 – 01:10:29:14
the main thing overall that will still needs to be improved in

01:10:29:14 – 01:10:33:08
terms of accessible travel whether that be accommodation or

01:10:33:10 – 01:10:39:03
and what sort of the main thing is still needs to be worked on and improved.

01:10:39:05 – 01:10:42:05
I think it is that information I think it is

01:10:42:11 – 01:10:45:18
making sure that that information is

01:10:45:20 – 01:10:49:18
is out there and is provided by the people,

01:10:49:18 – 01:10:52:15
providing the service, by the accommodation,

01:10:52:15 – 01:10:55:15
the by the restaurants, and that should become

01:10:55:18 – 01:10:58:21
normalized across the industry is that, you know,

01:10:58:22 – 01:11:01:22
as I said earlier, you know, you can find out that they provide

01:11:02:03 – 01:11:04:14
poo bags and biscuits for your dog, but you can’t find out

01:11:04:14 – 01:11:05:20
if you can get in the building.

01:11:05:20 – 01:11:09:21
And so it’s really important

01:11:09:23 – 01:11:11:05
to put

01:11:11:05 – 01:11:14:13
more importance on on accessibility.

01:11:14:13 – 01:11:18:13
And I think it’s great to find out that I get biscuits for my dogs when I get there

01:11:18:15 – 01:11:22:04
and what kind of hand towels

01:11:22:04 – 01:11:26:11
they provide and have they got a hairdryer, all that stuff you know is is great we need that info.

01:11:26:13 – 01:11:29:23
But I think we need to make sure that as part of that

01:11:30:00 – 01:11:33:13
that frequently asked questions stuff that there is accessibility info and

01:11:33:15 – 01:11:37:20
and you know a lot of places offer accessible rooms but they’re not

01:11:37:24 – 01:11:41:11
they don’t mention that on the site and I think God you’re missing out on on

01:11:41:12 – 01:11:43:10
marketing is a it’s beneficial to everyone.

01:11:43:10 – 01:11:48:01
It’s beneficial for the businesses and and for the customers.

01:11:48:03 – 01:11:54:03
So I think yeah definitely a stronger

01:11:54:05 – 01:11:56:11
stress on the on

01:11:56:11 – 01:11:59:09
providing accessibility information.

01:11:59:09 – 01:12:03:09
Yeah as I sure do Also I would say to them time on a day to day basis

01:12:03:11 – 01:12:05:03
if they just had it all written down already

01:12:05:03 – 01:12:08:23
rather than having to answer emails or phone calls, you know, each time saying

01:12:08:23 – 01:12:10:02
We have this, no we don’t have that.

01:12:10:02 – 01:12:12:19
And to have that statement and I think even goes

01:12:12:19 – 01:12:16:20
beyond the individual places themselves, even in places like Airbnb

01:12:16:20 – 01:12:20:13
and Booking.com, for example and that it should be a requirement

01:12:20:13 – 01:12:23:20
that on every listing there should be a space for

01:12:23:22 – 01:12:27:21
the accessibility statement or for there to be some form of explanation

01:12:27:21 – 01:12:31:12
or or just to get information to make that standard.

01:12:31:12 – 01:12:36:19
So people do have to fill it out and it is there, that it should be policy.

01:12:36:21 – 01:12:37:16
Yeah, I agree.

01:12:37:16 – 01:12:39:12
I agree with that with that idea.

01:12:39:12 – 01:12:41:15
With Airbnb in particular

01:12:41:15 – 01:12:44:14
I think it’s frustrating scrolling through and trying to find that

01:12:44:14 – 01:12:48:12
you find the odd one that maybe if you go on Airbnb and you filter by

01:12:48:13 – 01:12:54:03
any any accessibility criteria in Scotland I think like two places come up

01:12:54:05 – 01:12:57:15
this like you know there are more accessible places

01:12:57:15 – 01:12:59:06
in the places that might be

01:12:59:06 – 01:13:01:07
and might not consider themselves accessible, but,

01:13:01:07 – 01:13:03:12
you know, there might be a person who can manage three steps

01:13:03:12 – 01:13:05:06
that can’t manage a flight of stairs.

01:13:05:06 – 01:13:08:06
So you need to be saying that’s three steps into the building, you know.

01:13:08:13 – 01:13:10:10
Yeah, definitely.

01:13:10:10 – 01:13:11:22
Yeah. Well this has been really really great.

01:13:11:22 – 01:13:12:08
Thank you so much

01:13:12:08 – 01:13:16:05
for sparing your time to chat and to reach out in the first place.

01:13:16:05 – 01:13:19:20
I think this has been really good conversation, loads of tips and advice

01:13:19:20 – 01:13:22:02
and just really great general chat about the topic.

01:13:22:02 – 01:13:24:06
And it is important as we’ve discovered

01:13:24:06 – 01:13:26:21
through our conversation, that people want to travel,

01:13:26:21 – 01:13:28:08
that it should be accessible,

01:13:28:08 – 01:13:31:02
that there are places out there that actually are doing it right

01:13:31:02 – 01:13:34:08
and that are okay to people to be able to to go on holiday to.

01:13:34:08 – 01:13:37:12
So thank you very much for coming on the podcast

01:13:37:12 – 01:13:41:07
has been lovely to talk to you, to meet you today and yeah thank you.

01:13:41:07 – 01:13:43:12
Thank you for having me It’s been it’s been really good

01:13:43:12 – 01:13:45:01
And I say I’m really passionate about Scotland

01:13:45:01 – 01:13:48:08
and there is a lot out there in Scotland for disabled people.

01:13:48:08 – 01:13:51:08
Great. Yeah, definitely. Thank you so much.

01:13:51:12 – 01:13:55:03
Thank you.

01:13:55:05 – 01:13:57:09
See you.