Episode 3: Casual Ableism talks… with 10,000 Able Interns

Hi friends and welcome to Episode 3. Casual Ableism talks… with 10,000 Able Interns. In today’s episode we are joined by our first guest, Sami Dar, co-founder of 10,000 Able Interns.

10,000 Able Interns is one of the 10,000 Interns Foundation’s programmes. The 10,000 Interns Foundation champions underrepresented talent and promotes equity of opportunity. They run two programmes that help them meet their mission: The 10,000 Black Interns programme, and the 10,000 Able Interns programme, both offering students and grads paid internship opportunities across a range of UK industries.

In this episode we will be hearing from Sami about the 10,000 Able Interns programme, what it is, how it started, and how you can apply for a place. 

We also discuss a whole range of topics, from access to work, workplace ableism, disability representation in the workplace, shifting perceptions of disability, as well as advice for applying for jobs and internships. 

As always, this episode will be transcribed and available to read as a blog post on our website: casualableism.com/podcast

Laura:

Thank you so much for joining me today. And for sparing your time, and I just can’t wait to hear more about it and just chat to you, because I think it’s such an important topic to to discuss and so it affects all of us.

Sami:

Yeah, yeah, yeah, of course. I think I think internships are an aspect of the kind of employment sphere that overlook slightly when it comes

to disabilities and specifically. So, you know, it’s great that we can chat and kind of spread the awareness.

Laura:

Definitely. So thank you so much for joining us, Sami Dar, from 10,000 Able Interns. This is really great.

Laura:

Can you just tell us a bit more about what it is you do and just who you are?

Sami:

Yeah, so I guess, so firstly, I was born with cerebral palsy, so I’m a wheelchair user, but I graduated from the University of Warwick in 2021. I studied business and then prior to that I kind of acknowledged a gap in the market for a better framework or a framework to better cater to students with disabilities.

So as a graduating, you know, I secured a full time job. And then alongside that, while I waited for that job to start, there was about a month window and I started to work on this project. And then I reached out to a variety of people, including the co-founders of 10,000 Black Interns, and then we decided to build the 10,000 able in terms program.

Laura:

That’s really interesting. And so how did you hear about them in the first place? I’d never heard of them. It wasn’t until someone I knew worked with the 10,000 Interns Foundation in general that I heard about them. So how did you even come across them and start the journey?

Sami:

And that’s a good question. Actually. I think, you know, it was, I knew people at my university who had received internship opportunities through the program and just researching diversity initiatives

that they were a program that was repeatedly featured and discussed when I was looking through different articles and through different people’s experiences when it came to diversity, because I kind of, there wasn’t much for disability.

So I explored different areas, the racial agenda. And though those are programs frequently reoccurred in my research.

Laura:

Ah that’s really amazing. And I think it’s so important because I think a lot of in terms of the internships, there’s a lot of talk about access to work in general, and obviously when you’re applying for jobs, you see, you know, you need a years work experience. You know, you need to already have worked for a different company, but without an internship or placement, it’s really hard to have that. And so why do so many aren’t accessible so many it’s harder, especially in terms of, you know, disability tax, where it costs more to attend a job, or to attend an internship

so finding a paid internship is just so important, especially ones open to recruiting people with disabilities.

So how can someone get involved and apply to the program?

Sami:

So in terms of applying, we have to do is literally going to our website 10000internsfoundation.com and just click apply. Now there should be a button for candidates to apply. They then have to fill out a short form. Our application process is very streamlined. All you have to do is, you know,

when it comes to other job applications, they can be a bit long winded and arduous. So we we’ve streamlined it to be, you know, basic information, in addition to 200 to 300 words on why you want to be selected or about yourself.

And then also they pick the top three sectors they want to be considered for and of course

a range of 15 to 20 different sectors we have available.

Laura:

Wow, that sounds like it’s really going to be straightforward to apply as well, because so many other times, so many job applications, it’s so different stages, so many different forms to fill out but you make streamlined that anyone can access that as well offers a lot of the thing about disability, it’s not just physical disability, it’s other. So for a long form or having to write lots can be quite overwhelming for some people could be too much information.

So the fact that you streamline that I think is really also, really, really good.

Sami:

Yeah, of course. I think I’ve been I’ve applied for roles that taken several days to fill out an application, but if you kind of actually come back

to it and then finish up. But I think the estimated time to fill out our application form is 20 to 30 minutes.

Laura:

That’s really good.

And so the applications are still open,

is that correct? Until the end of October?

Sami:

I believe they’re open until October 29.

Yeah, I think so.

Laura:

So people listening to this can still apply if they think

that sounds like their sort of thing.

Sami:

Yeah.

Laura:

And what sort of locations are available? Is it just in the major cities or whereabouts are the companies based?

Sami:

So we try and cater to where wherever our applicants are so we and it is predominately London based because that’s where the kind of economic and corporate hub of the country is.

But we do encourage firms to offer internships across the country and many of the firms we partner with, many of the firms that sign up

have offices scattered across the country, so they’re able to offer internships to cater to the location of the intern. And also when it comes to disability, where however, it’s difficult to travel.

Like you said, it’s difficult to get to the paid internships. So so the thing we do stress is

if remote working is actually if traveling to an internship is the barrier, whether that be because of location or disability, we encourage firms to develop a remote experience.

Laura:

That’s really good and I think that’s something that the pandemic has really

has had as a benefit to society. In a way, it’s really shaped the way that people can actually actually work. Right before the pandemic and before it was normal to work remotely. A lot of us spoke about if you couldn’t travel and commute even half of the time or commute to an office, that was something that was pretty restricted. But now the fact that that’s now so readily available and companies are so used to supporting their workers from working remotely as well is really good. And I think if someone is doing internships

with that with remote work, it’s also a great tool to learn

how to do that because I think if you have that, it’s a skill

almost, working remotely, isn’t it?

So to have that

as part of that kind of learning curve

and is getting experience in that

in that way is also really, really good.

Sami:

Yeah, I think for myself,

having started work, you know, in

just after the pandemic,

I never really experienced

pre-pandemic work, if you like.

So to me

it was almost grateful because I would

I can’t envisage myself

going into the office five days a week.

I live on the outskirts of London

and my my office is in central London. So to travelling every day I drive so,

traveling during rush hour would take maybe an hour and a half plus. I do that every day both ways. Plus I have to get ready in the morning, which takes me longer. So when you accumulate all of time, it would just be impossible to sustain a trip in a long period of time.

So the the the reason of choosing to work from home more, it’s almost been a blessing for the disabled community because I’m lucky that I couldn’t see myself doing that five days a week. I would have to take the whole weekend

to recover. And then by the time we’ve recovered,

it’s time to go back to work. So I’m really grateful for the opportunity

to work from home as like you said, it’s it’s a skill in the sense that different expectations have to be met in terms of things like communicating with the team and maintaining the relationship and still being productive.

So there are aspects of it

that may not be considered

as strongly in the office that you have

to take into account and carry forward when you’re working full time

because you still want it

to benefit your career just as much.

You know,

there are so

there are there is the perspective

that working from home detracts

from the learning,

the learning curve of the experience,

because you do spend

a lot of time on your own and you know, in

and around

your more experienced colleagues.

But if you approach it in the right way

and you communicate in the right way,

I think

that shouldn’t happen.

Laura:

Definitely.

I think the communication skills

are an important part of everyday life.

And I think that often companies look for

candidates with good communication skills.

So for those of us

who are used to working remotely,

then we already could have developed

that without even having to try.

I mean, that’s really, really important.

And so for me, I actually studied

remotely

for a couple of years for my GCSEs

because of health reasons.

So I distance

learned from home on my own.

So I was very used to that.

And obviously being disabled,

I missed the school, so

I was often catching up and working

during homework and actual class work at home.

So I think I’ve always had that

natural kind of

I just learned how to do it

because I had to. So I think that

it is great that we are forced to do it

naturally.

Then when you actually

want to apply for a job,

you could say,

I have good communication skills because I’m used to working remotely

and I’m used to finding different ways to

to go talk to colleagues.

And I think actually it forces you

to have those weekly meetings

and it makes you kind of

maybe pushes you to be in contact more.

If you’re in the office,

you may not necessarily

even talk to somebody

or you may not have a productive meeting.

But of course, if you have to have

a scheduled meeting every week to sit down

or a video call, then it will be

more likely to get productive

outcome out of that as well.

Sami:

Yeah, of course.

And I think it’s more

than just productivity or learning.

It’s also down to the social experience

and making sure you have a close bond with a team because that’s

a very important in being productive

and being comfortable in

and asking questions of the team and being

around the team and working as a team

also gives the social interaction.

we require as human beings

but the insistence on maintaining

contact and communicate

I think is really healthy for if we’re working remotely long term.

Laura:

Definitely. Yeah, definitely.

It I think it does. It is really important that if you’re working remotely,

well you do have that ability

to get to know your team members,

whether that is in meetings or 1 to 1

or even on a

chat platform. Definitely.

And I think that it’s really great.

Your internships offer the alternative

because you said, you know that commuting

all that time and extra time to

get ready, it makes the days much longer

and also the pressure off

you know that accompanies flexible

if even if you are in the office

most of time even knowing

that there is a remote option

if you’re having a bad day

or even if someone you know, people

rely on on PAs or carers, so knowing

that you’re dependent on someone else.

So if you have that flexibility

and for some reason a carer can’t come in

or someone who normally drives,

you can’t pick you up at a certain time

that you’re not going to miss out

on opportunity.

You can still and do the work from home

without necessarily relying on anybody

externally, which is always

a really good opportunity as well.

Sami:

Yeah, and I think

I think beyond relying on others,

you know, if something goes wrong

within your morning or you wake up

and something isn’t quite going to plan, then

and I think,

you know, as a disabled person,

you know, one thing

can throw off your entire morning

or your entire schedule

or set you back a long time.

So I think not having to rely on going in

every day

or not being held accountable for,

you know, being late,

If you were late, for instance,

instead of doing so, you just

work remotely

and not have to go through all of that.

So so I think it’s a really good backup

as well.

If you do like going to a place

and you are capable,

it’s also a good opportunity

to have that backup have that safety too so that so

you don’t have to be held accountable to

things beyond your control, if you like.

Laura:

Definitely.

I’ve had days with a power cut and the lift wasn’t working,

so I couldn’t actually leave the building.

So if I had a job to go to in person,

I wouldn’t have been able to attend

But because I work remotely

I was still able to attend even though there was a power cut and things like that.

And my mobility scooter once, the battery just completely stopped working.

and I wouldn’t have been able to go out,

but of course, working remotely.

I could. 

So I think it’s really good

to have that opportunity and 

that variety

as well to be able to have that.

But as you said, to not have to be held accountable.

I’m going to not let anyone down either and it is really important.

So when you went from university

to your first job, did you have any issues

in terms of accessibility?

or ableism in your experience,

in getting a job or finding work?

Sami:

I think when it came to internships specifically, I did struggle with because when it comes to internship applications in general, in the corporate sector, you do have to focus on quantity because it’s so rigorous. There are so many people competing for that one role as there are on every job. Really, they do tend to focus on quantity and that was something I struggled with because I think when you have a disability that your time is quite stretched and you know, but I struggled to put enough applications in at the same rate as my peers, You know, I mean, I put in applications for jobs, 25 from my perspective in 80 to 100 and I think the really, the more you put in, the more chance of success you have. So I think in the initial instance, there was a struggle for myself, which is part of the reason why I looked to set up the programme. But I think ableism in the application process, it was quite positive that though many firms that went above and beyond. There were a few that were not great at all. And, you know,

I think when you come across,

those are not really firms

you want to work for anyway.

So they almost filter themselves out.

So I wasn’t too fussed by that

because there were so many

that went above, above and beyond

that was really impressive. So

I think during the process itself,

no, for the most part,

I think when I joined the firm

upon reflection,

you know, it’s a steep learning curve

for a lot of firms because many of them

haven’t had an employee

with a specific disability before.

So it’s a learning curve for so many. And

in hindsight, I think there were some

things they could have done differently. But a lot of the time they were, I can tell they were trying

to be supportive in certain areas.

I feel like things were overlooked,

so I feel like I said,

it’s a learning curve for everyone

and I don’t want to be too critical

because I got the feeling

they were trying.

But, you know, without that lived

experience, it can be difficult to

genuinely and holistically

support you in that way.

Laura:

That’s very true. And I think that also in the whole

I think the whole positive of having disabled people in the workplace, whether that be internships

or just in employment, is that companies can actually see first hand how a disabled employee is and what they may need or may not need, and how the variety of disabilities and health conditions that are so varied in so many different aspects and variations. So it’s really good that I think by having the disabled talent within a company that is only way companies are going to learn. So it’s all very well, them having training or going, you know, to seminars. They’re not necessarily going to learn just from hearing hearing it from someone else. Actually having a person in there within that team, they actually can learn that maybe someone needs this, but someone else doesn’t. And it’s not a blanket thing because disability isn’t a monolith, You know, it’s just so, so different. And so that’s really going to be a really powerful message to them. That’s how companies can can improve. And we actually did a poll on our Instagram account asking if people had any difficulties accessing internships. And I think 58% reported that they had, which, you know, to think about, that’s a huge percentage of people that had actually had difficulties in accessing them. And even in work, when we got submissions from people who said they have a lot of ableist comments from other other co workers and from different people, other people who are ableist in mentality they don’t think that person has a disability or don’t think that they need a certain adjustment or accommodation just because they don’t look the way that that kind of employer see disability. And that’s what’s so important and that’s why it’s so great trying to raise awareness and and include disabled people into companies so they can see the variety, and that we’re actually a really great asset to have in the companies.

Sami:

Yeah. So I think when it comes to ableism from coworkers,

I think there are two issues in place. I think firstly, a) I think there needs to be far more training

when it comes to disability awareness and not just within D&I teams or senior level teams, because when, when preparing to become a disability confident employer, you know, the D&I teams and HR are very well trained and clued up on disability, but that doesn’t necessarily filter down to the teams who are going to be working. And that’s really what matters most

because you want to be acknowledged and respected when it comes to disability from the people who are working as closely with them and that doesn’t always happen.

And b), I think, you know, when we’re when we’re pitching the program to our partnering

firms, one of the things we say is, you know, it’s a learning experience for yourself it’s a unique opportunity to have exposure to a specific disability that you may not have had in the past. And that’s what we look to expose them to, really, because once you’ve had that initial exposure, you can build on that. You can add that to your experience within the HR teams and your,

you know, sector specific teams. So that’s something we really try to stress to the teams. And I think also when it comes to the issue of ableism from coworkers, I think there are certain preconceptions about disability that limit the, their I guess, tolerance to disability because your coworker may come in and say, I need these adjustments and I have a disability. So they’re not wheelchair user, they’re not visually impaired, they’re not deaf, so your coworkers may struggle

in perceiving you as a disabled person or to be a disabled person. I think that’s another issue

that needs to be addressed and can only be addressed through firm wide training.

Laura:

Definitely. I think we get a lot of people saying that they have to take days off because of ill health or they have to work from home for some of the time

or they have to make medical appointments. And if people see a non

stereotypical looking disabled person, then they’re not going to understand without the awareness and without the exposure. You know, and I think unless you’ve

actually had a friend or family member who has a disability of any form, then people don’t necessarily even know the different types

and it’s only through lived experience,

whether that be from yourself or from seeing a friend or family member

that you actually can have, are more aware of the different types of disability, or that 

that someone may not look disabled, but they actually are.

And it’s very true that it’s all very well giving the kind of the the head of the company, the training,

but then the actual day to day staff that the employee can be working with,

does need to then also have that awareness. And that’s also by just by companies

and employees having a disabled employee that’s there any way they can,

they can really learn that’s really good that the through the you’re also offering

the candidates themselves the opportunity as well as the company and the employees

which it’s really going to be unique. Everyone benefits not just the person who’s getting

the internship it is very important.

Sami:

Yeah and I think also, you know,

when you’ve mentioned that and I think

another thing that I struggle

with within the workplace is my contract

stipulates that I only get

ten days of sick leave per year

and you know, as a disabled person

to have the same amount of sick days

as anyone else is a little bit difficult

because I’ve had to take off use up,

you know, 10 reasonably quickly

and then you know, I’ll need that

sick leave whenever else I’m sick

and that means

I have to take reduced pay for the day

I’m sick or not be sick at all.

And in times like I thought was

if I could use the money,

I just haven’t been sick, even though,

you know, I had the flu or have COVID or I’ve just gone work anyway

because I’ve used up my sick days and and I don’t really want to be taking paid sick leave

because it would mean taking lower pay. So there’s also that, too.

I think it needs to be more flexibility

when I’m sick days when it comes to disabled employees.

Laura:

Definitely.

And it also adds more pressure on you

when you’re actually ill

You’re going to be lying there,

thinking, okay, I can’t be ill for more

than ten days at a time or I can’t be.

And I’ve already used up

how many days, therefore I must get better.

And that’s detrimental

to your recovery as well if you’re ill,

because if you’re disbaled you actually often,

I’m kind iller than the usual person. 

You know a cold affects me

probably worse, so therefore 

I’m often iller for longer

and if I’m there thinking oh so there 

is work, I’ve got to do

and I mustn’t be off for too long

or I’ve got sick days

that I, you know, have already used up.

Then you know it

kind of makes it worse.

You can’t really heal properly

and get better because you’re just worrying

about about the money or about letting your team down,

about work building up.

So was a really good point

about the flexibility of sick days.

I think also there are companies

that have flexible working hours.

So for example, my company, I’m

lucky that it’s flexible.

So if I need to do, you 

know, more hours one day, but less

the next day as long as all of the work gets done,

then that’s okay as well.

And that’s really important about, that’s added to the working from home,

working remotely, it’s having a flexible hours

so that if you don’t necessarily

have to take a sick day

but you can just do more another day.

As long as you get that work done

and that helps, if you have an appointment

then it’s better than rather

than taking that time off that you can

kind of make up the hours some other way,

which is another another option.

Sami:

Yeah, I think it’s interesting.

You mentioned flexible hours because

my employer actually

has flexible hours but

you know, it’s recognised within HR,

like I said,

but when it trickles down to my

my specific team,

they have their own deadlines

that their client needs to meet.

So they’re not as accommodating

when it comes to

catering to those flexible hours or if you 

know they needed it done by the end of

the day or by close of business at 5 p.m. 

therefore I can’t do it afterhours or 

on the weekend

or when I’m getting better. So there does need to be a culture shift

of more accommodating styles

when it comes to the disability, but I do

you know, I don’t want to be too quick

because I feel firms have come a long way

in the last 5 to 10 years

and they’re doing great. But I think there is more to be done.

Laura:

That’s true.

And I think that we are lucky

to be in our generation

that we are coming into the work place

where things are better and there are people who have pioneered

these things for us ahead of us. And that’s something

that with Casual Ableism I’m hoping to do for others and all those behind me by using my experience and my bad experiences in the past. And I make things better, just like we are benefiting from people, we in the future, from people who are ahead of us, and making sure

that those things are possible for us now. I mean, I think the working from home thing, even, you know, five years ago was six years ago it would not have been possible. So I think that we are lucky in the fact that we have kind of

come into it and in quite a good period of time.

Obviously, it is not perfect, but in a positive way. We are better off

than some of our predecessors,

which is a silver lining I guess.

Sami:

Yeah, I completely agree.

Laura:

Yeah.

And so

in terms of the companies that you find,

are were already inclusive companies?they already have disabled employees or

and they could are looking to increase diversity

or do you just approach companies

that you think would be good

for candidates and then approach

you and pitch them the concept?

Sami:

I think I think it’s a bit of both,

but I think we definitely do have targets

that are known for being more open to diversity,

more ethical, more sustainable,

more focus on ESG, in terms of goals and then there are other good firms

to work for about, you know, we don’t know much about that practice

when it comes to diversity inclusion. And we just approached them

and see how they feel about it. And a lot of the time it’s positive.

You know,

there is the occasional bad apple

that doesn’t really want to participate.

But I think for the most part,

you know, we have over 700 firms

participating with the foundation.

Most of the big firms

in London, which is great, to be honest.

But I think

I think the initial push

towards firms was just

it was a mixture of a big firms

and large infrastructures

and the capacity to take on one intern.

Amongst

the tens of thousands of employees,

though it wouldn’t

have much of an impact on them.

B) Those are really catered to diversity, inclusion,

and we’re really committed to it.

Even if they were slightly smaller, didn’t have big teams that would still be keen and commit to too participating in the program. So it was a combination of both. And you know, we’ll reach out to new firms

and new sectors year on year and we’re hoping to incorporate and encapsulate

many different firms moving forward. So I think, you know, we have

great representation within a range of sectors

and we don’t necessarily have data on the good disabled employees

or the number they have.

You know, we work with a lot of big firms,

so we assume that most of them would have at least

a couple of disabled employees. You can never be too sure. We’ll we hope to have that.

And then beyond that, it’s

just about giving firms the opportunity to

to embrace that learning experience

and embrace the opportunity

to propel themselves

to the forefront of diversity inclusion

through the same lens.

Laura:

That’s a really good point.

I think it’s really amazing

because so many different

companies are involved

and the fact that they are big

companies is so important as well.

And I said earlier by our experience

how the companies and individual

and you don’t know them anyway,

so you wouldn’t

want to have those companies

offering internships

if they were reluctant anyway,

because you want those companies

that are welcome to change

and to embrace having a disabled intern,

that’s really good.

And I think that I found

in my own experience, I found that my I had a work placement

as part of my course, graphic design, and it was a workplacement,

It was part of the credits that we had to get for our course.

And I found that it wasn’t great for me.

My experience

and I found that it was an afterthought.

And I felt that with my own placement

I was given,

I felt that accessibility

was the most important thing.

Therefore, I slightly lacked

in the quality of the work experience

I was getting. So other people were getting more hands

on experience. They were being kind of shadowing people.

They were learning new skills.

Whereas I didn’t get that because I had to

choose the one that was accessible.

Never mind the environment,

the experience or what I was going to learn,

because I had to get in the building

and that was something I feel that is

really important about having proper

companies involved that are actually going

to give the candidates and the interns

proper skills that will get them proper work 

experience and knowledge of workplace

because it’s no good having a workplacement,

where they don’t learn anything and gain experience.

So that was really, really good.

Sami:

Yeah. So I think having a breadth of employees

is really helpful

because you don’t want to limit 

the interns with disabilities,

in a specific niche of a few firms

that would like to participate.

Having a breadth and

a choice in their selection

really helps to take away the pressure of it

focusing on accessibility,

and they can just focus on the work,

what they want to do,

what they love to do.

So the fact that we work across so 

many sectors, means that

someone who is interested

in a specific area of finance

can focus on that and not just choosing

an employer generally within

finance may not

cater to what they specifically 

what they want to do,

but they’re accessible

so they’ll go for it anyway.

Then they can choose

their specific interests

without having to worry too much

about choosing an accessible employer.

Laura: 

Definitely.

And I think that also that as disabled people we don’t have any less ambition than anyone else. We still want to go for all those different careers. And so therefore, that’s why having all the opportunities in different sectors and specific areas of a certain sector is really important because just because we’re disabled we shouldn’t have to kind of choose our career around what’s going to be most accessible. You know, if we want to be a doctor, we should be able to be a doctor.

If we want to be a lawyer, we should be able to be a lawyer. And that was very important as well

to have that variety and for it to be accessible and not have to worry about, okay, well,

I want to do this career, but getting an internship won’t be possible and then getting a job won’t be possible because of the industry.

And certain industries, for example, in a more kind of like fashion

photography, being an intern, stereotypically is being a runner, carrying equipment and doing things that are possibly physically harder for those of us with disabilities, or health conditions. So having sectors that offer what the person wants but also is kind of tailored so they can still have the worker experience of how the internship is really important. So it’s not discriminating against any one industry or one career that someone might want to have.

Sami:

Yeah, and I think we do have some creative industries on board. And the great thing about that is that, you know, when like you said, when it comes to internship experiences, they won’t be expected to be a runner or to carry equipment or to to do the legwork, so to speak. So I think it’s great in the terms of the typical experience within those industries is shifted to become more accessible because there are accessible opportunities and jobs within those sectors, but they’re just left to the more experienced, if you like. So it’s great that we’re able to work with those organisations, those industries to create a more accessible experience for our interns.

Laura:

Definitely, it’s really, really good. And I mean, the disability employment gap is a huge topic, and I Googled some statistics before this. And (in the UK) 52.6% of disabled people were employed in July, September last year, whereas 82.5% of non-disabled people were employed in that same period of time. And that’s a huge difference. And of course, you know, that I said earlier about having to apply for jobs and you need to have a certain level of experience, for certain jobs, and that’s why accessible internships and inclusive environments are so important so that we can actually get in the door. Once we’re in the door, then we have the same opportunity that everybody else.

Sami:

Yeah.

So I believe I read that

the employment rates for disabled people have fallen since the pandemic,

so they’ve gotten worse. Sorry, the unemployment rate has risen,

employment rates have fallen. And I think that’s largely down

to, you know, a post-pandemic push back to the office

from a lot of particularly corporate firms that want to maximise productivity

and utilise the workforce. And, you know, they’ve gone from being entirely remote to being three days in office to being four days in office.

And it’s been something that well, I believe anyway, it’s been something that has caused the disabled population to shrink back into…whether it’s unemployment or whether it’s entrepreneurship, I think they’re looking for opportunities that cater to their needs, and they can be flexible around their own needs.

And I think a lot of firms are trying to move move away from completely remote work or flexible work under the gaze of productivity, if you like. But but it’s not always, you know, appropriate

or accessible for disabled employees. So I think that that has I think it’s it’s probably totally key to economic conditions in general workforces. And also when it comes to moving away from that remote working to an office, working, it’s been a discouraging experience and a discouraging

time for the disabled population.

Laura:

Yeah, I think that anyone who got a job during the pandemic, when it was so heavily work from home. That was such a great opportunity for people to get into employment and into the workforce. So of course that was a great period of time when everyone was ‘normal’,  everyone was the same from working from home.

And if companies are then actually going “okay now you have to be in the office”, those people who chose the jobs because of the remote working are now going to suffer. And I think also people are based all over the country because there was remote working. So it wasn’t defined by: you have to be in London or in Manchester or in a certain locations.

And I think that actually, obviously those companies want to have better productivity and want to have people in the building to be able to monitor their work, their work and output. The same time, companies can benefit from saving on cost, if people work from home and if certain types of people, especially for people with disabilities or health conditions, possibly they actually work better from home and in their own environment. They’ve got their own proper office chair, like

like mine, a proper chair suited to me. They can, you know, have their own environment,

which is more suitable to them whether they have autism or ADHD, or possibly they wouldn’t be as productive actually in in the office.

So it is double edged. I think companies, if they really think on a global scale of okay,

this is the majority of the workforce. Then there are the people that actually

maybe it’s better for them being at home. But I think it’s really sad to hear that

that’s then dropped since the pandemic because of the ‘back to the office’ push, but also because it needn’t be that the flexibility shouldn’t still be there for those of us who may find it easier on different levels of working from home.

Sami:

Yeah.

00:42:09:23 – 00:42:15:00

So I think I think really it’s

is about sustaining

00:42:15:02 – 00:42:18:05

a balance between accessibility

00:42:18:05 – 00:42:22:15

and accommodating to the disabled

and also trying to maintain productivity.

00:42:22:15 – 00:42:27:19

But I do understand the perspective

of these executives and CEOs and bosses

00:42:27:19 – 00:42:34:03

that want productivity within the office,

because I do agree that a lot of the time

00:42:34:05 – 00:42:37:21

teams are more productive one at the other

when they’re in office.

00:42:37:21 – 00:42:41:15

But they also need to to understand that

00:42:41:17 – 00:42:45:03

it’s not always practical

to focus on their employee.

00:42:45:05 – 00:42:49:10

It’s about finding a balance, that 

compromise and that empathy

00:42:49:12 – 00:42:52:12

and to keep the whole workforce

in different ways.

00:42:52:16 – 00:42:56:19

I think you can’t really treat employees

with one cookie cutter.

00:42:56:21 – 00:43:01:01

You need to treat them on a case

by case basis, and that’s what

00:43:01:02 – 00:43:06:09

a lot of the great firms are doing

when it comes to diversity and inclusion.

Laura: Definitely, definitely.

00:43:07:14 – 00:43:10:19

And I think having that that individuality 

and flexibility

00:43:10:19 – 00:43:14:19

to depending on the employee

because no employee is the same anyway.

00:43:14:19 – 00:43:17:19

And I think that

00:43:17:23 – 00:43:20:13

yeah, having opportunity

to be able to obviously level up.

00:43:20:13 – 00:43:24:06

I think that also

I think if a company is truly great then

00:43:24:12 – 00:43:25:23

and they have the right training in place,

00:43:25:23 – 00:43:29:18

the right environment for employees,

then they can actually balance both.

00:43:29:20 – 00:43:32:18

They can actually have people

in the office and people remotely

00:43:32:18 – 00:43:33:24

because if they offer the right support

00:43:33:24 – 00:43:37:05

of their employees

and therefore the right environment and

00:43:37:07 – 00:43:41:21

even just the social environment

and just mental and a good communication,

00:43:41:23 – 00:43:46:07

then it can be possible for the employees to

be productive

00:43:46:09 – 00:43:46:21

at home.

00:43:46:21 – 00:43:48:14

And obviously every company is different.

00:43:48:14 – 00:43:50:22

And and obviously having people

there is better,

00:43:50:22 – 00:43:53:24

but definitely having that mixture

and that understanding

00:43:53:24 – 00:43:57:04

and that inclusion that some people

will need to have their time at home

00:43:57:04 – 00:44:01:04

is definitely really important

and hopefully as companies

00:44:01:04 – 00:44:02:12

are hiring, more disabled

00:44:02:12 – 00:44:05:12

people, are getting more disabled,

peoples’ perspective,

00:44:05:13 – 00:44:09:01

then they’re going to also realize

that that is actually a possible way.

00:44:09:03 – 00:44:11:01

And I think

also there’s obviously a stereotype

00:44:11:01 – 00:44:12:13

that if you work from home

00:44:12:13 – 00:44:15:14

you can be a bit lazy

and there’s obviously the preconception

00:44:15:14 – 00:44:17:07

actually that disabled people in

general are lazy.

00:44:17:07 – 00:44:21:04

That’s the huge thing,

stigma of and in society anyway.

00:44:21:06 – 00:44:22:15

So if you say,

you know want to say, you

00:44:22:15 – 00:44:24:06

need to work from home,

people think that you’re,

00:44:24:06 – 00:44:28:02

you know, you’re slacking off

because people in society, it is changing

00:44:28:02 – 00:44:33:04

but people in society do think disabled people

are lazy or do have have an easy ride.

00:44:33:06 – 00:44:37:12

I think that’s also changing

by having more people in the workforce.

Sami:

Yeah, I think you’re completely right.

00:44:39:07 – 00:44:43:11

I think as we have more representation

00:44:43:13 – 00:44:48:20

in the workplace,

we’re able to influence social stigmas,

00:44:48:20 – 00:44:52:16

social perceptions

of the disabled community

00:44:52:16 – 00:44:58:16

and going forward, I think over time

they’ll hopefully start to 

00:44:58:18 – 00:45:03:13

intergrate and shift towards something

that’s more realistic because, you know,

00:45:03:13 – 00:45:07:17

the perception of laziness is just,

you know, it’s ridiculous.

00:45:07:18 – 00:45:10:22

But but

00:45:10:24 – 00:45:13:20

so in a sense,

I understand where it’s coming from,

00:45:13:20 – 00:45:17:04

but it’s just coming

from a place of misinformation

00:45:17:06 – 00:45:20:24

and, you know, a lack of knowledge

00:45:20:24 – 00:45:24:18

and information

when it comes to disability.

00:45:24:18 – 00:45:30:01

So the more we can get that out there, the more

the more we can enable representation

00:45:30:03 – 00:45:35:13

within the workplace, within individual

teams to kind of spread that awareness.

00:45:35:13 – 00:45:38:04

And then that’s great.

Laura:

Definitely

adding that things like the 10,000 Able Interns

00:45:41:06 – 00:45:43:16

is just so great

because that really is companies

00:45:43:16 – 00:45:44:19

are obviously really embracing that.

00:45:44:19 – 00:45:47:14

You’ve got so many companies

that are involved in the program

00:45:47:14 – 00:45:51:09

and therefore you also have

so many interns that are in internships

00:45:51:15 – 00:45:52:15

and that’s, you know, that’s

00:45:52:15 – 00:45:54:13

the only way that they’re going to help

change that message

00:45:54:13 – 00:45:58:06

and not stereotype us by having having

initiatives like that going on.

00:45:58:12 – 00:45:59:13

So I think it’s just so great

00:45:59:13 – 00:46:03:10

what you’re doing and and the fact

that also that many disabled people out there

00:46:03:12 – 00:46:06:12

are now getting that opportunity

to a proper internship

00:46:06:12 – 00:46:08:05

and then they’re going to have

a better chance

00:46:08:05 – 00:46:11:10

at a proper career in industries

that are really going to benefit

00:46:11:10 – 00:46:13:24

from having that disabled talent as well.

Sami:

Thank you.

00:46:14:16 – 00:46:20:17

So I think one of the things I focus on

when we were first starting out was,

00:46:20:19 – 00:46:24:21

you know, the Zero Opportunity

circle change because the more disabled

00:46:24:21 – 00:46:29:01

employees do position

within the workplace, the more influence

00:46:29:01 – 00:46:32:13

they can have on stigmas and perceptions

around disability.

00:46:32:13 – 00:46:37:06

And I think that’s still something that bears true

because as we grow

00:46:37:06 – 00:46:40:24

and as we have more people

with disabilities in the workplace,

00:46:41:01 – 00:46:46:01

I do think perceptions will shift,

I think one of our main goals is to have

00:46:46:01 – 00:46:50:01

those interns eventually rising

to positions of seniority.

00:46:50:01 – 00:46:53:23

And I think when they’re in those positions

in seniority, they can influence

00:46:54:00 – 00:46:55:23

hiring to be more unbiased.

00:46:55:23 – 00:47:00:18

They can influence, you know,

the subordinates within the workplace

00:47:00:18 – 00:47:06:18

and they can really have long term

change and elicit long term shifts.

00:47:06:18 – 00:47:09:03

In perceptions, in the workplace.

00:47:09:03 – 00:47:14:21

So I think one of the main things

we are looking to alongside in the short

00:47:14:21 – 00:47:17:21

term of providing work

00:47:18:00 – 00:47:21:15

for the employees

and providing training to the employers,

00:47:21:21 – 00:47:27:20

is a long term social shift

in the perceptions surrounding disability.

00:47:27:22 – 00:47:28:08

Definitely.

00:47:28:08 – 00:47:30:18

And that’s very, very important

and that’s the only way

00:47:30:18 – 00:47:33:03

that it’s going to happen

is by having these conversations.

00:47:33:03 – 00:47:35:20

And by actually getting in there

with the companies and in talking

00:47:35:20 – 00:47:39:16

to the CEOs or whoever it is

that you deal with and saying this is,

00:47:39:18 – 00:47:42:17

you know, also how a disabled employee

can benefit you.

00:47:42:17 – 00:47:45:00

It’s not just a diversity tick box.

00:47:45:00 – 00:47:46:03

You know, it’s so much more.

00:47:46:03 – 00:47:49:11

And I think the people around us

can benefit from us not

00:47:49:13 – 00:47:51:12

because we’re anything special,

00:47:51:12 – 00:47:54:08

but it’s because we do have

a unique perspective on things.

00:47:54:08 – 00:47:58:17

And, you know, we lived things

that other people haven’t experienced

00:47:58:19 – 00:47:59:20

and that is very important.

00:47:59:20 – 00:48:03:19

And even I think you know, companies

can be

00:48:03:21 – 00:48:08:14

can benefit from having that more human

00:48:08:16 – 00:48:11:04

and holistic aspect on things.

00:48:11:04 – 00:48:13:22

Yeah I think I think you know

00:48:13:22 – 00:48:17:08

even when you consider things like

00:48:17:10 – 00:48:19:11

women in the workforce or

00:48:19:11 – 00:48:21:24

I think specifically women in finance

00:48:21:24 – 00:48:24:18

between you know maybe 1990

00:48:24:18 – 00:48:27:15

early 2000 now there’s been a big effort

00:48:27:15 – 00:48:30:15

to to change the

00:48:30:17 – 00:48:35:06

the weighting within demographics

and to get women in finance

00:48:35:06 – 00:48:39:00

more involved at higher levels

when it comes to positions

00:48:39:00 – 00:48:40:22

of seniority and its work.

00:48:40:22 – 00:48:43:16

So I think I think if we persist with

00:48:43:16 – 00:48:47:07

with these programs,

whether it’s that those of ‘10,000 Black Interns’

00:48:47:08 – 00:48:51:13

‘10,000 Able Interns’,

I think in the long term

00:48:51:13 – 00:48:56:05

there’s a real opportunity

to have the elicit representation

00:48:56:07 – 00:49:00:17

across different demographic split

in the workplace because obviously,

00:49:00:17 – 00:49:04:23

there’s still more to be done when

it comes to women in corporate positions

00:49:05:00 – 00:49:08:00

and in sexism and misogyny

in the workplace.

00:49:08:04 – 00:49:10:05

I think that there has been a big shift.

00:49:10:05 – 00:49:14:21

If you look at the data

across the last 30 years,

00:49:14:23 – 00:49:18:02

and I hope to replicate that same

00:49:18:04 – 00:49:20:10

shift within

00:49:20:10 – 00:49:20:19

the black

00:49:20:19 – 00:49:24:20

community and the disabled community, across 

our programs and of course

00:49:24:20 – 00:49:28:22

any of our future

when it comes to different demographics.

00:49:28:22 – 00:49:32:19

So I think we have a good model

and I think it

00:49:32:21 – 00:49:35:21

really puts us in a good position to

00:49:36:00 – 00:49:41:13

to perpetuate the long term shift in elicit representation

00:49:41:15 – 00:49:44:10

within the workplace,

because it’s the only way

00:49:44:10 – 00:49:47:10

we’re going to elicit long-term change.

00:49:47:16 – 00:49:50:02

Definitely, I think even just in showing,

00:49:50:02 – 00:49:53:08

you know, young disabled children

that there is a career for them

00:49:53:14 – 00:49:56:10

in sectors that possibly before

wasn’t the representation.

00:49:56:10 – 00:49:58:20

You know, it’s all about representation

and showing

00:49:58:20 – 00:50:02:01

showing people that that is possible

if they if they aspire to be,

00:50:02:03 – 00:50:04:22

you know, in finance

or in a certain sector

00:50:04:22 – 00:50:07:14

that they’re are disabled

people are that sector to follow onto

00:50:07:14 – 00:50:08:11

because it’s you know,

00:50:08:11 – 00:50:12:03

I think when I was growing up

I didn’t really see disabled people

00:50:12:03 – 00:50:14:00

in the workforce and I’m sure I 

wouldn’t have seen a disabled accountant

00:50:14:00 – 00:50:15:18

or disabled people in

00:50:15:18 – 00:50:18:00

in their kind of high top

firms of London.

00:50:18:00 – 00:50:21:24

But now, especially with what you’re doing

with more and more representation,

00:50:21:24 – 00:50:25:17

it just shows shows that

the young generation that they can do that

00:50:25:17 – 00:50:27:21

there’s no reason

that they can’t achieve that.

00:50:27:21 – 00:50:31:04

And as the years go by

and as you’re making that social shift

00:50:31:04 – 00:50:32:09

and that a shift within

00:50:32:09 – 00:50:35:06

within the employment sector

that you’re going to be paving the way

00:50:35:06 – 00:50:38:07

for those people and showing them

that it is possible when they get to

00:50:38:07 – 00:50:41:19

that stage, they’re actually going

to not have as many barriers to face.

00:50:41:19 – 00:50:45:21

There’s companies going to be like, “yes,

of course we had interns

00:50:45:23 – 00:50:46:23

with disabilities before.

00:50:46:23 – 00:50:50:15

So therefore of course

knows those accommodations

00:50:50:15 – 00:50:53:20

and those understandings

will be in place already.

00:50:54:00 – 00:50:58:14

And obviously at the moment and in previous

years it’s been, not necessarily a battle,

00:50:58:14 – 00:51:01:05

but there’s been a push

to get those things established,

00:51:01:05 – 00:51:05:01

but once that framework is there,

then it’s going to be in theory,

00:51:05:03 – 00:51:08:19

it’s going to be a lot easier for anyone

behind us to come through.

00:51:09:00 – 00:51:11:07

But it’s also really important

is paving the way.

00:51:11:07 – 00:51:15:07

And setting those things up,

so that anyone in the future

00:51:15:07 – 00:51:19:22

isn’t going to have to kind of battle

or have those situations that we may have

00:51:19:23 – 00:51:21:21

experienced ourselves.

00:51:21:23 – 00:51:22:21

Yeah.

00:51:22:21 – 00:51:25:20

And like you said, I think

00:51:25:20 – 00:51:27:13

representation is so important.

00:51:27:13 – 00:51:33:01

I think that as the years go by, increased

representation will only make it easier

00:51:33:01 – 00:51:39:04

for the disabled people, or

minority groups in general to

00:51:39:06 – 00:51:41:19

take their place in the workforce

and get into the workforce

00:51:41:19 – 00:51:46:14

because as you have

that breadth of experience and the breadth

00:51:46:14 – 00:51:50:12

of perspective at a higher level,

I think it becomes

00:51:50:14 – 00:51:53:12

then it becomes

00:51:53:12 – 00:51:55:16

then becomes less of a pushback

00:51:55:16 – 00:51:59:17

against different groups

entering various teams

00:51:59:17 – 00:52:03:10

or positions or firms

because there is such a balance

00:52:03:10 – 00:52:09:08

of representation and it’s still imbalanced

for sure, up at the top levels, but

00:52:09:08 – 00:52:14:19

it’s something that it’s it’s definitely

something we’re looking to change.

00:52:14:21 – 00:52:16:14

And I believe we are changing.

00:52:16:14 – 00:52:17:22

But it will take time.

00:52:17:22 – 00:52:22:14

I think, you know, the most worrying terms

are still only in terms or

00:52:22:16 – 00:52:24:09

at the most junior level within that firm.

00:52:24:09 – 00:52:31:10

But we hope within time we can affect

change in a way that put minority groups

00:52:31:12 – 00:52:37:05

or those furthest from opportunity

at the highest levels of the firms.

Laura:

Definitely, it is so

important that the fact that you yourself

00:52:39:23 – 00:52:42:10

are having the conversation and

are getting those interns in there,

00:52:42:10 – 00:52:45:15

and even if they’re only at a low level

at the moment, there is that

00:52:45:15 – 00:52:50:03

once they’re in there, they can then, you know,

make that change and and any, any

00:52:50:03 – 00:52:53:23

any employer who has a disabled intern,

they’re going to

00:52:54:02 – 00:52:55:11

they’re going to be changed.

00:52:55:11 – 00:52:58:12

They’re going to have that a shift

in perspective, and that’s just so important.

00:52:58:12 – 00:52:59:21

So thank you so much.

00:52:59:21 – 00:53:03:10

So for all that you do

and for starting this and collaborating,

00:53:03:12 – 00:53:06:12

with the 10,000 Black Interns to create this

00:53:06:16 – 00:53:09:19

10,000 Able Interns, it’s just so great.

00:53:09:19 – 00:53:12:06

And I do wish that

when I was at that stage

00:53:12:06 – 00:53:12:23

that there would have been

00:53:12:23 – 00:53:16:01

that sort of thing available for me,

because it certainly would have been great

00:53:16:01 – 00:53:19:02

to even to have known about

and even to even just apply to it.

00:53:19:02 – 00:53:22:24

Even if I had got an internship

just to know that there was someone out

00:53:23:00 – 00:53:25:00

there who was really,

00:53:25:02 – 00:53:27:00

you know,

pioneering and giving those opportunities,

00:53:27:00 – 00:53:30:06

creating new spaces

for for people like me.

00:53:30:11 – 00:53:31:03

So thank you.

00:53:31:03 – 00:53:35:16

And so what would be

do you have any advice for anyone

00:53:35:18 – 00:53:39:22

who is thinking about getting internship

or who is still university

00:53:39:22 – 00:53:43:02

yet to get to that stage of employment

or work experience?

00:53:43:02 – 00:53:45:21

What would be your advice

to them going forward?

Sami:

So I think if you’re at university,

definitely apply because if you eligible

00:53:49:21 – 00:53:53:23

so even if you’re in your first year

or a gap year you’re eligible to apply.

00:53:54:00 – 00:54:00:04

So, I guess my first line of advice

would be apply to our program

00:54:00:06 – 00:54:04:05

and there are so many spots available

to those who really want them.

00:54:04:05 – 00:54:08:21

And and I think it’s a great way

to get your foot in the door in the

00:54:08:22 – 00:54:11:17

industry you want to be in.

00:54:11:19 – 00:54:14:19

And beyond that, more generally,

00:54:14:19 – 00:54:18:11

when you look beyond the program,

I think it’s

00:54:18:13 – 00:54:22:07

apply to everything and anything

00:54:22:07 – 00:54:25:15

you think you might benefit from

or you think you may be interested in.

00:54:25:17 – 00:54:30:06

I say don’t waste your time on things

that seem

00:54:30:08 – 00:54:33:17

maybe

00:54:33:19 – 00:54:36:12

prestige or seem

00:54:36:12 – 00:54:39:09

to look good on your CV

if you’re not really interested

00:54:39:09 – 00:54:43:12

because you know

it’s your time as much as it’s their time,

00:54:43:12 – 00:54:47:24

and you want to spend your time wisely

spending time in ways that will benefit

00:54:47:24 – 00:54:52:06

you and then spend your time in ways

that you want to spend it really.

00:54:52:08 – 00:54:55:17

So there’s no point in applying

to a corporate banking role

00:54:55:19 – 00:54:59:19

just because it sounds nice on your CV

if you’re if not really interested.

00:54:59:21 – 00:55:05:10

And so I’d say prioritize your interests

and really go

00:55:05:10 – 00:55:09:07

for where you want to, try not to focus

too much on long term goals.

00:55:09:07 – 00:55:13:05

I’d say focus on

maybe have a think, on what you’d like to do

00:55:13:11 – 00:55:18:08

or the area of work you like to focus on

in the next 2 to 3 years,

00:55:18:08 – 00:55:23:14

because it’s really difficult to have

a long term goal because

00:55:23:16 – 00:55:27:15

you know, the smallest,

smallest of experiences can often shift.

00:55:27:15 – 00:55:31:03

So what I like to say

to students is to think about

00:55:31:08 – 00:55:35:24

you want to focus on in the next two years

or an area of anything

00:55:35:24 – 00:55:40:08

really that interests you to think about

maybe even 2 to 5 years.

00:55:40:08 – 00:55:44:13

What would you like work on going

beyond that you can always change or even pivot into

00:55:44:14 – 00:55:46:15

other things

00:55:46:17 – 00:55:48:11

but really focus on what interests

00:55:48:11 – 00:55:52:15

interests you now, as opposed to a

more senior position you may want

00:55:52:15 – 00:55:56:22

to be in in 20, 30 years time. And then just you know,

you’re the one that’s going

00:55:56:24 – 00:56:00:15

have to do the work

now as opposed to, you know, focus

00:56:00:21 – 00:56:04:11

getting that now as opposed to get it done

ten, 15 years down the line.

00:56:04:13 – 00:56:07:20

So if you know what you like

or you know what

00:56:07:20 – 00:56:11:11

you may be into at this moment in time,

then just apply for it.

00:56:11:13 – 00:56:15:03

And I’d say don’t think too far ahead

when it comes to, you know, when to be

00:56:15:03 – 00:56:19:03

thinking about what you want to do

when you’re 40, because

00:56:19:05 – 00:56:23:13

it will likely change or fall apart

to for a variety of reasons.

00:56:23:13 – 00:56:28:15

So just think about what will make

you want to do this summer or next summer

00:56:28:17 – 00:56:32:03

and focus on that.

00:56:32:05 – 00:56:33:18

And I think, you know,

00:56:33:18 – 00:56:37:11

applications in general

are a chance to tell your story.

00:56:37:11 – 00:56:41:09

And then when it comes to our application

process

00:56:41:11 – 00:56:44:11

in those two, 300 words are really trying

00:56:44:11 – 00:56:47:13

to present

the best, best version of yourself.

00:56:47:13 – 00:56:51:12

And it’s telling a story

and to be authentic in who you are

00:56:51:12 – 00:56:55:06

and what you want to be or what

you want to do and why you’re applying.

00:56:55:08 – 00:56:58:03

So there’s no need to be formulaic or

00:56:58:03 – 00:57:01:24

to pander to the needs

or requests of the firm.

00:57:02:01 – 00:57:07:10

Obviously, you have to do it

for external applications.

00:57:07:10 – 00:57:10:02

You have to do

00:57:10:02 – 00:57:11:10

include what they’re looking for.

00:57:11:10 – 00:57:13:00

But when it comes to our

00:57:13:00 – 00:57:17:12

application process, I think just be try

and be authentic, try to be individual

00:57:17:14 – 00:57:24:01

and try and express your story,

your your skills, your strengths or your

00:57:24:03 – 00:57:27:12

goals and who you are as a person

and why the firm will benefit from

00:57:27:12 – 00:57:32:04

you as a person,

I think that there’s a lot to be said

00:57:32:06 – 00:57:35:04

for being

00:57:35:04 – 00:57:39:03

authentic as opposed to being formulaic,

and I think that would be my approach

00:57:39:03 – 00:57:42:00

when it came to our specific application

proccess.

00:57:42:00 – 00:57:46:17

Obviously, to be honest, when it comes

to firm specific applications,

00:57:46:19 – 00:57:49:04

you know, when you look at

00:57:49:04 – 00:57:52:11

a bunch of different firms,

they have their values

00:57:52:13 – 00:57:54:12

and they have their mission.

00:57:54:12 – 00:57:57:04

You have to kind of incorporate

into your answers

00:57:57:04 – 00:58:00:17

into the application process

and those should be considered

00:58:00:19 – 00:58:01:23

when you’re applying to firms.

00:58:01:23 – 00:58:04:18

Because, for example,

you know, I work in finance.

00:58:04:18 – 00:58:08:00

If you look at a bank, they’ll 

have their own set of values

00:58:08:02 – 00:58:12:13

and you want to get those, across,

and portray those within your answers.

00:58:12:13 – 00:58:17:11

Within your applications,

because that’s what they’re looking for

00:58:17:13 – 00:58:18:20

to get through the next round.

00:58:18:20 – 00:58:23:14

But I think if it’s looking

our application process in particular,

00:58:23:16 – 00:58:28:18

I think just be authentic because it’s

going to be sent out to a bunch of firms.

00:58:28:20 – 00:58:31:20

So you can’t really cater to one,

which I prefer,

00:58:32:00 – 00:58:35:12

because you don’t have to pander

to the wants or needs

00:58:35:12 – 00:58:39:22

and you can just be true to who you are

and you can really tell them your story.

00:58:39:22 – 00:58:41:22

And why you want to work in this sector.

00:58:41:22 – 00:58:43:11

Why are you doing what you do?

00:58:43:11 – 00:58:48:01

So I think, like I said, if it comes to

if if you’re talking

00:58:48:03 – 00:58:52:17

our application process specifically,

just be authentic and be original.

00:58:52:17 – 00:58:55:13

And when it comes to

00:58:55:13 – 00:58:57:23

firm specific applications outside

00:58:57:23 – 00:59:02:06

outside of our program,

just to do your research,

00:59:02:08 – 00:59:04:19

look at their values,

look at their mission,

00:59:04:19 – 00:59:07:11

look at some of the work

they’ve done in the past.

00:59:07:11 – 00:59:11:23

If you’re applying to a specific team,

00:59:12:00 – 00:59:14:01

look at some of the deals they work on.

00:59:14:01 – 00:59:18:02

I’m mostly covering corporate here because that’s what I know, but

00:59:18:04 – 00:59:22:00

I think if it’s corporate

look to some of the deals they’ve worked on

00:59:22:02 – 00:59:25:21

or some of the initiatives

that they’ve launched in the past

00:59:25:23 – 00:59:30:23

and some of the things they do as a team

and in their areas of expertise

00:59:30:23 – 00:59:35:16

and just build on that and incorporate

that into your applications.

Laura:

It’s really good point because also

when you look at your application

00:59:38:19 – 00:59:39:16

and a job listing,

00:59:39:16 – 00:59:43:20

obviously they are looking for a certain

type of skills within that for that role.

00:59:43:22 – 00:59:47:12

So therefore one does have to tailor

your application and your personal statement,

00:59:47:12 – 00:59:51:18

in your cover letter to the you could have

those specifics of that role,

00:59:51:19 – 00:59:54:18

that they’re advertising for I think what’s really great

about about be able

00:59:54:18 – 00:59:58:23

to apply through the ‘10,000 Able Interns’

is that it’s already

00:59:58:23 – 01:00:02:20

a given that the person is disabled

or has a health condition.

01:00:02:22 – 01:00:05:22

So you don’t have to worry about

whether you disclose it or not.

01:00:05:22 – 01:00:07:04

Obviously, that’s an issue.

01:00:07:04 – 01:00:11:01

We get a lot of submissions from people

saying that they have disclosed their disability

01:00:11:02 – 01:00:15:15

and then they don’t hear back,

or it’s going really well

01:00:15:15 – 01:00:19:19

and then they disclose their disability

and suddenly it’s actually it’s a no,

01:00:20:00 – 01:00:23:11

or people who have been given advice

actually not to go into the interview

01:00:23:11 – 01:00:26:11

with their mobility aid

because it could ruin their chances.

01:00:26:11 – 01:00:29:00

And so that was obviously something

that people have faced in the past, 

01:00:29:00 – 01:00:30:22

so the fact that with your internships,

01:00:30:22 – 01:00:34:09

that it’s already known that they have

a health condition or disability.

01:00:34:11 – 01:00:37:06

So don’t need to worry about how you word it,

you can genuinely be true

01:00:37:06 – 01:00:39:15

to who you are

because you can actually incorporate

01:00:39:15 – 01:00:42:09

that aspect of yourself

because obviously being disabled,

01:00:42:09 – 01:00:45:17

you know, it is part of who

we are, it’s not necessarily our whole identity,

01:00:45:19 – 01:00:47:18

but it is a huge part of who we are

and why or 

01:00:47:18 – 01:00:51:10

what makes us a good candidate

in some respects that’s really great

01:00:51:13 – 01:00:56:06

that they can, especially as a first step

into the workplace with an internship

01:00:56:08 – 01:00:58:10

that you could have slightly

01:00:58:10 – 01:01:00:18

and have to worry too much

because you’re in that space

01:01:00:18 – 01:01:03:18

where you already know that you’re going to be 

accepted as a disabled person

01:01:03:18 – 01:01:06:15

and because that’s

what the internships are for.

01:01:06:15 – 01:01:07:19

So I think is really great.

01:01:07:19 – 01:01:10:19

And your advice is really useful

for anyone who’s even people

01:01:10:19 – 01:01:13:22

who have already applied for jobs,

but just in general, really great advice.

01:01:13:22 – 01:01:14:22

Thank you.

Sami:

No problem.

01:01:15:12 – 01:01:19:11

So I think I think when it comes

to disclosing disabilities,

01:01:19:11 – 01:01:23:07

I think when you’re

playing outside of our program, I think

01:01:23:11 – 01:01:27:07

the important thing to do is be upfront

early on because like I said,

01:01:27:12 – 01:01:31:10

if they’re resistant to disability

during the application process,

01:01:31:16 – 01:01:33:12

what are they’re going to be like,

when do you start work?

01:01:33:12 – 01:01:35:04

So I wouldn’t worry about,

01:01:35:04 – 01:01:39:02

you know, leaving your mobility aid behind

or or not disclosing your disability.

01:01:39:02 – 01:01:42:02

And I think be upfront, be authentic.

01:01:42:02 – 01:01:45:16

And, you know, if they respond badly, then

01:01:45:18 – 01:01:47:10

I know we all need jobs, but

01:01:47:10 – 01:01:52:00

it’s not really someone you want to work

for, or a place of employment 

01:01:52:00 – 01:01:55:03

that’ll be good for your long term health

if you felt the need to hide that.

01:01:55:03 – 01:01:58:14

So I say definitely be up front from the get.

01:01:58:16 – 01:02:01:17

And I say normally

when I apply for a role, what I do

01:02:01:17 – 01:02:06:10

is I send a follow up email

to explain my disability,

01:02:06:10 – 01:02:09:00

my requirement

during the application process,

01:02:09:00 – 01:02:14:07

and then when it comes to employment

details, employment, if I’ve got that role, I would

01:02:14:07 – 01:02:18:05

then my first day, my first couple of days

explaining to my manager

01:02:18:06 – 01:02:23:06

the adjustments I would need,

which aren’t many many to be honest.

01:02:23:06 – 01:02:26:07

And then you just ask them to pass it

on to any teams.

01:02:26:07 – 01:02:29:08

I would be working with them,

you know, if I moved to a new team

01:02:29:08 – 01:02:32:08

or if I spend some time in another team.

01:02:32:10 – 01:02:34:23

Then I’ll explain,

the manager of that team.

01:02:34:23 – 01:02:39:22

So it’s all about being open,

being communicative and

01:02:39:24 – 01:02:42:24

I think going in with a positive mindset

and thinking that

01:02:42:24 – 01:02:45:24

the firms will be inclusive

and will be disability friendly.

01:02:45:24 – 01:02:50:02

Because if you go in a apprehensively,

01:02:50:04 – 01:02:52:07

I think you’re always going

to hold yourself back.

01:02:52:07 – 01:02:54:12

But will really help in the long term.

01:02:54:12 – 01:03:00:13

And so like I said, if you’re holding stuff back

and they only hire you because you didn’t

01:03:00:15 – 01:03:02:00

come in with your mobility aid then,

01:03:02:00 – 01:03:05:19

then you have to come in every day

anyway, it’s kind of pointless.

01:03:05:21 – 01:03:12:03

So I think just being open from the get go

and then that will weed out, not only those

01:03:12:03 – 01:03:15:16

that aren’t disability friendly, but it’s also

01:03:15:16 – 01:03:19:03

make sure you’re on the front foot

01:03:19:05 – 01:03:23:03

in terms of communication from day one,

which will only benefit your career.

01:03:23:05 – 01:03:26:05

And I think when you communicate

in that way

01:03:26:11 – 01:03:29:24

it only enables them

to give you the adjustments you need to

01:03:30:05 – 01:03:36:21

excel in your career, so it’s helpful

to you as well as them

Laura:

Very true.

01:03:37:14 – 01:03:40:03

And I think that often

in applying for jobs anyway,

01:03:40:03 – 01:03:41:20

internships or any form of employment

01:03:41:20 – 01:03:42:21

can be very discouraging

01:03:42:21 – 01:03:44:16

if you don’t hear back

for whatever reason,

01:03:44:16 – 01:03:46:14

whether it’s for disability

or just because you’re not the right candidate.

01:03:46:14 – 01:03:50:13

It can be quite discouraging

and it’s really good just to remind people

01:03:50:13 – 01:03:52:03

that just keep going.

01:03:52:03 – 01:03:54:14

If you don’t hear back, or

if you get a rejection letter,

01:03:54:14 – 01:03:56:19

then just keep going

because you will find that right one.

01:03:56:19 – 01:03:58:24

Even if it takes a while.

01:03:58:24 – 01:04:01:24

Then, you know, if they don’t want you

that you wouldn’t want them.

01:04:02:05 – 01:04:03:04

So it’s really good advice

01:04:03:04 – 01:04:06:07

and it does sort of

make sure that when you get that employer

01:04:06:08 – 01:04:07:07

and that job,

01:04:07:07 – 01:04:09:00

then you know that

that you’re going to be accepting of you

01:04:09:00 – 01:04:12:01

and it’s going to be a good environment

to be a part of is really, really, really,

01:04:12:02 – 01:04:13:02

really important.

Sami:

Yeah, I think that’s good advice to not

just the disabled population,

01:04:17:10 – 01:04:21:08

but for anyone really,

because I think rejection is, we know

01:04:21:08 – 01:04:25:21

it can be in the sense

of applying for work because, you know,

01:04:25:23 – 01:04:30:00

I think when you apply to a role

and you get to those final stages,

01:04:30:02 – 01:04:31:11

it starts to get into your head.

01:04:31:11 – 01:04:36:01

You start to envisage maybe like the work there,

01:04:36:01 – 01:04:40:08

or going to the office, how long it may take

the commute or working within that role.

01:04:40:08 – 01:04:47:24

But then you know, when the rugs kind of pulled from underneath you

01:04:48:01 – 01:04:49:12

and obviously it doesn’t feel

01:04:49:12 – 01:04:53:06

great and you feel as

if you should have got to that role

01:04:53:06 – 01:04:58:06

you deserve the role, but then I think going forward, I think,

01:04:58:08 – 01:05:00:00

you know,

there’s always a better role out there.

01:05:00:00 – 01:05:03:00

You start to build it up in your head

and think this will be a great role for me

01:05:03:03 – 01:05:06:12

but there’s always a better role

that will come about and not necessarily

01:05:06:18 – 01:05:07:11

a better role,

01:05:07:11 – 01:05:12:19

but the right role will come about in time

because the jobs you get are the jobs

01:05:12:19 – 01:05:19:11

where the firm and the candidate click beyond

any other opportunity you’ve had.

01:05:19:11 – 01:05:23:10

So you really want to prioritise

those over

01:05:23:12 – 01:05:27:22

a lot of near misses whereby you may not

it may not have been a good fit,

01:05:27:24 – 01:05:32:03

but in reality it’s more of the firm

that wasn’t a good fit for you

01:05:32:05 – 01:05:36:11

and they haven’t really seen

what you can offer within you.

01:05:36:11 – 01:05:40:08

So I think if you do get

01:05:40:10 – 01:05:44:05

a rejection, it’s more just, you know,

propelling onto the right

01:05:44:05 – 01:05:48:01

path as opposed to you know,

taking you off the path completely.

01:05:48:03 – 01:05:50:11

So I think that’s really something

to keep in mind.

01:05:50:11 – 01:05:53:00

You know there’s always going to be rejection.

01:05:53:00 – 01:05:55:00

It would be

01:05:55:00 – 01:05:59:11

it would be unrealistic to expect

to get the role each time,

01:05:59:13 – 01:06:03:21

because there are so many candidates

for this economy.

01:06:03:23 – 01:06:06:18

But I think when the right role comes around

you will get it.

01:06:06:18 – 01:06:08:04

It’s just a numbers game.

01:06:08:04 – 01:06:12:13

It’s it’s you know you do just 

have to wait it outsometimes.

Laura:

Definitely I think with every application

you do and every interview

01:06:14:24 – 01:06:18:04

you have, every interaction

with a perspective company that you have.

01:06:18:06 – 01:06:21:13

It’s a learning curve

and you gain experience in that process.

01:06:21:13 – 01:06:25:04

So it takes, you know, a few months

or a year, you’re actually you’re gaining

01:06:25:04 – 01:06:28:18

and you’re getting used

to how you pitch yourself in a cover letter.

01:06:28:20 – 01:06:31:00

You’re getting used

to how to curate your CV.

01:06:31:00 – 01:06:33:07

And so every stage,

even if you don’t get the role

01:06:33:07 – 01:06:35:04

and you think it would be a good role

for you,

01:06:35:04 – 01:06:37:11

you’re still growing as a person

and a candidate,

01:06:37:11 – 01:06:40:15

which is also very important to remember

that it’s not a setback, it’s

01:06:40:15 – 01:06:43:11

just a way to step forward

and kind of improve

01:06:43:11 – 01:06:45:08

ourselves each time

and have that experience

01:06:45:08 – 01:06:49:22

to use the rejections or those, you know,

the things that are not working out to,

01:06:49:22 – 01:06:52:05

actually, the next application,

you could have

01:06:52:05 – 01:06:56:12

pitch yourself, you reword things

or you could give it even a better shot.

01:06:56:14 – 01:06:59:17

But so yeah, it’s just good to remember

to keep going and the right thing 

01:06:59:17 – 01:07:01:04

will come along

and that will be the company

01:07:01:04 – 01:07:04:12

that really wants you as well,

which is really, really important.

01:07:04:14 – 01:07:05:04

Yeah, exactly.

01:07:05:04 – 01:07:07:11

And I think I think interview practice.

01:07:07:11 – 01:07:11:04

Can’t be understated. I think if you have,

01:07:11:06 – 01:07:13:09

you know, maybe a disability,

01:07:13:09 – 01:07:16:19

that’s presented social barriers, those

01:07:16:19 – 01:07:19:19

interviews can be challenging.

01:07:19:23 – 01:07:23:05

I think that that practice

can be invaluable

01:07:23:07 – 01:07:28:02

to any disabled group and even more

so for those that faces kind of barriers.

01:07:28:04 – 01:07:31:23

And I think

when it comes to interview practice,

01:07:32:04 – 01:07:36:01

even beyond the disabled population more broadly

01:07:36:03 – 01:07:42:10

so, so valuable in terms of fine

honing your communication skills

01:07:42:10 – 01:07:46:14

and the nuances and your answers,

establishing what you would say,

01:07:46:14 – 01:07:49:18

what kind of person

you want to present yourself as to

01:07:49:18 – 01:07:53:15

what kind of person you want to be

in those interviews and beyond.

01:07:53:17 – 01:07:59:12

So I think with each interview,

you gain a more

01:07:59:14 – 01:08:03:11

than a fuller understanding of what

employers in general are looking for.

01:08:03:13 – 01:08:05:24

And you go back

each time and you’re better.

01:08:05:24 – 01:08:10:24

So I wouldn’t be discouraged

by one rejection because

01:08:11:01 – 01:08:11:24

and particularly

01:08:11:24 – 01:08:16:09

if you’ve never had an interview before,

I’d say even to get to that final stage

01:08:16:10 – 01:08:21:01

and to fulfill the requirement

of the interview is is phenomenal.

01:08:21:01 – 01:08:25:11

And I’d say always get feedback, from the 

employers if you can,

01:08:25:11 – 01:08:31:04

because even if you don’t get the role,

their feedback is so constructive

01:08:31:04 – 01:08:35:11

and valuable in terms of your long term

development as a as an employee.

01:08:35:13 – 01:08:39:24

And you can then fine tune what went wrong,

maybe there are easy

01:08:39:24 – 01:08:45:07

points and then build on those in the

future of your next interview.

01:08:45:08 – 01:08:46:20

So I always

01:08:46:20 – 01:08:50:17

look to get something from the interview,

even even if it’s just feedback,

01:08:50:19 – 01:08:54:10

because each interview

you do, you become better and stronger.

01:08:54:10 – 01:08:57:19

You’ll become a fuller candidate.

Laura:

Definitely.

01:08:58:05 – 01:09:01:10

And I think it also an opportunity to

to actually get to know the company

01:09:01:10 – 01:09:05:03

a bit as well as if you find that

joint interview you’re like that person

01:09:05:03 – 01:09:07:16

or you don’t feel that company’s

the right fit for you.

01:09:07:16 – 01:09:10:16

It’s also up to you to say

to actually reject them, you know,

01:09:10:22 – 01:09:12:19

actually not want to accept an offer from them

01:09:12:19 – 01:09:14:17

because until you have that interview,

01:09:14:17 – 01:09:16:13

you don’t know what they’re going to be

like either.

01:09:16:13 – 01:09:18:06

And to hear about the role

and the environment

01:09:18:06 – 01:09:20:06

that you might be working in as well.

I think it’s also really, good,

01:09:22:06 – 01:09:26:04

Steven Bartlett always says if you don’t ask, you

don’t you don’t get a chance.

01:09:26:06 – 01:09:30:03

That’s also really important to know

that if you even if you don’t see jobs

01:09:30:03 – 01:09:33:24

listed or internships listed,

it’s always worth contacting a company

01:09:33:24 – 01:09:35:24

that you really like

or you’d like to work for

01:09:35:24 – 01:09:38:22

and pitch yourself to them,

sending them your CV.

01:09:38:22 – 01:09:42:15

Because if you don’t ask, at all,

you know you’re never going to know.

01:09:42:21 – 01:09:47:02

You might as well take that risk and see

if they’ve got any opportunities open.

01:09:47:04 – 01:09:48:21

And then in the future they may then see

01:09:48:21 – 01:09:52:14

or remember that

you sent an email a few months ago

01:09:52:20 – 01:09:56:10

when they are actually in the moment

of hiring. So that’s also good to know

01:09:56:10 – 01:10:00:22

that you just kind of can be proactive

in that way and approach companies

01:10:01:02 – 01:10:04:09

who aren’t necessarily advertising

that they’re hiring.

Sami:

Yeah, I think that’s really great advice.

01:10:05:23 – 01:10:10:10

What found is that

a lot of the time is that HR work with

01:10:10:12 – 01:10:16:00

so many different firms within the program

I think firms will often

01:10:16:02 – 01:10:16:14

they’ll be

01:10:16:14 – 01:10:20:14

aware of roles coming up weeks

before they advertise in some cases.

01:10:20:14 – 01:10:24:01

So if you do put your CV in,

saying “can be considered

01:10:24:03 – 01:10:27:02

for any any role within this

01:10:27:02 – 01:10:29:19

sector that

01:10:29:19 – 01:10:30:11

pops up.?”

01:10:30:11 – 01:10:35:04

Then it’s a great way for you

to get ahead of the crowd externally.

01:10:35:04 – 01:10:37:19

And you know, it may not always work.

01:10:37:19 – 01:10:41:04

So when I said you may just be overlooked,

but there will be instances

01:10:41:04 – 01:10:45:09

whereby an appropriate role will pop up

and they’ll say, Look, this person

01:10:45:09 – 01:10:49:19

sent in their CV, but we haven’t opened up

our applications publicly through

01:10:49:23 – 01:10:53:00

is considerable alongside our internal candidates.

01:10:53:00 – 01:10:56:19

And I think that’s where we need

to be proactive.

Laura:

Definitely.

01:10:57:13 – 01:11:01:00

And as always, worth a shot, there’s

no there’s nothing wrong with doing that.

01:11:01:02 – 01:11:02:09

And even if, you know,

01:11:02:09 – 01:11:05:09

obviously different times of the year,

there are more jobs available than others.

01:11:05:13 – 01:11:08:18

So even if you feel like you’re

not getting anywhere, so it’s even for your own

01:11:08:19 – 01:11:11:19

peace of mind to know that

you’re doing that extra bit.

01:11:11:19 – 01:11:13:21

And you know, you never know

what these things can bring.

01:11:13:21 – 01:11:14:12

And I think it’s really

01:11:14:12 – 01:11:17:20

good to step to try and then it

and also shows initiative.

01:11:17:20 – 01:11:21:00

If a company may think, gosh,

look at that person there stepping outside

01:11:21:00 – 01:11:24:11

the box or contacting us directly

because they want to work with us.

01:11:24:11 – 01:11:28:19

And that’s also a good, good way

to show that to a future employer as well.

Sami:

Yeah.

And I think on the flip side,

there will also be employers are like,

you know, why are you sending the CV

through the improper channels?

But you have nothing to lose really.

01:11:40:06 – 01:11:42:11

Like I then

01:11:42:13 – 01:11:43:07

just send your

01:11:43:07 – 01:11:47:03

CV out there and if firms respond to it in

that way, then it doesn’t affect you.

01:11:47:03 – 01:11:51:16

It’s the same as not doing 

anything in a way.

01:11:51:18 – 01:11:54:05

But then if you do receive that

01:11:54:05 – 01:11:58:17

one employer

that says they’ve shown great initiative, we’re actually

01:11:58:22 – 01:12:02:15

looking for someone of this

01:12:02:17 – 01:12:04:14

intellectual build,

01:12:04:14 – 01:12:08:08

then it works out well for you

and it’s worth it, worth the chance.

01:12:08:08 – 01:12:12:10

I think when it comes to applying to roles

01:12:12:12 – 01:12:16:08

just be on those traditional, I’m not saying abandon those traditional ways,

01:12:16:10 – 01:12:16:19

really.

01:12:16:19 – 01:12:20:14

But also, you know, if there is a firm

you’d like to work with, they don’t have to wait.

01:12:20:16 – 01:12:23:08

Send a message

01:12:23:08 – 01:12:27:00

to HR and say, you know,

this is what I want to do.

01:12:27:00 – 01:12:29:13

If you have anything in that area.

01:12:29:13 – 01:12:33:22

Or even closely linked

or remotely related to the area

01:12:33:24 – 01:12:35:20

that you’re

considering in the near future,

01:12:35:20 – 01:12:39:21

I’d love to be considered

and just send a cover letter

01:12:39:21 – 01:12:43:18

of who you are,

why you want to work in that sector

01:12:43:20 – 01:12:49:06

any why you want to work for them specifically

and try and incorporate their values.

01:12:49:06 – 01:12:54:13

And when it comes to sector specific

01:12:54:15 – 01:12:56:05

areas of your CV,

01:12:56:05 – 01:13:00:04

of your cover letter do some research

on the sector and incorporate that

01:13:00:06 – 01:13:03:17

and the firms work

within the sector, incorporate all that

01:13:03:19 – 01:13:07:06

together. 

Make it no more than a page, maybe 700,

01:13:07:07 – 01:13:11:09

750 words. Have one paragraph on yourself.

01:13:11:09 – 01:13:16:09

One on why you want to work with that firm, one why you want to work in that sector.

01:13:16:11 – 01:13:19:23

And then once you build

that along with some research

01:13:20:01 – 01:13:25:03

incorporated from the sector,

the firm, and really further into your own values.

01:13:25:05 – 01:13:29:05

I think when you send that off and you tailor it

to specific place,

01:13:29:07 – 01:13:34:18

there’s a really good chance

that I mean that goes just beyond you know

01:13:34:20 – 01:13:37:23

ad-hoc emails

that goes into your applications as well

01:13:38:04 – 01:13:39:24

that they do ask for a cover letter.

01:13:39:24 – 01:13:42:11

This is exactly

how you want to approach it.

01:13:42:11 – 01:13:47:00

We want to make your CV a page long, 

your Cover Letter a page long.

01:13:47:02 – 01:13:54:16

Because if these employers are printing out the CVs

a page and a half is more difficult

01:13:54:18 – 01:13:55:13

to read.

01:13:55:13 – 01:13:59:17

And my brother actually

sent me a CV last year and it was about

01:13:59:19 – 01:14:00:21

five pages long.

01:14:00:21 – 01:14:06:12

It managed to include everything

ever done in bullet point form.

01:14:06:12 – 01:14:09:03

And I said to him, look, I’m

01:14:09:03 – 01:14:11:23

going to have to cut this

down and he sent it to me for feedback

01:14:11:23 – 01:14:15:03

and it was way too long so

I condensed into a page,

01:14:15:03 – 01:14:17:14

which is the most important thing

to do in my opinion.

01:14:17:14 – 01:14:21:17

You want to a) highlight

the things that are most appropriate for that role

01:14:21:19 – 01:14:26:23

and b) show your ability to communicate

in a way that isn’t

01:14:27:00 – 01:14:30:16

superfluous

and is in a way that can be concise.

01:14:30:18 – 01:14:34:17

So if you keep that to a page

and you keep your coverletter to a page

01:14:34:17 – 01:14:36:01

with three paragraphs,

01:14:36:01 – 01:14:39:07

maybe an introductory paragraph

and a short conclusion,

01:14:39:09 – 01:14:42:18

that’s around 700-750 words, I think

01:14:42:18 – 01:14:44:07

you’re giving yourself a really good chance

01:14:44:07 – 01:14:48:02

within traditional application processes

and also beyond that,

01:14:48:03 – 01:14:55:17

if you’re sending emails to HR,

that’s also really a way too.

Laura:

Yeah, definitely.

01:14:57:00 – 01:14:59:12

I think also really important skill

to develop as well.

01:14:59:12 – 01:15:03:08

And I think I saw online

that you were also offering

01:15:03:10 – 01:15:05:15

workshops and talks to people.

01:15:05:15 – 01:15:08:04

I think you’re doing a university tour

01:15:08:04 – 01:15:12:06

to go into different locations

to talk to students.

Sami:

Yeah, so I believe our community

engagement manager Julie

01:15:17:13 – 01:15:21:13

and our program

assistant Shivani are going around

01:15:21:13 – 01:15:25:04

talking to different universities

all over the country.

01:15:25:06 – 01:15:28:19

I think today they’re in Birmingham,

I believe,

01:15:28:21 – 01:15:30:06

and they’re going to Warwick, my university.

01:15:30:06 – 01:15:33:18

Many of them. They’ve either been

01:15:33:18 – 01:15:34:20

or they’re going to Cambridge,

01:15:34:20 – 01:15:36:12

but they’re going to

a bunch of universities up

01:15:36:12 – 01:15:40:14

and down the country

trying to raise awareness of the programme

01:15:40:16 – 01:15:44:18

of both programs

and just trying to get students to sign up.

01:15:44:18 – 01:15:51:04

And I believe the CV workshops are

over for this year. But

01:15:51:06 – 01:15:52:05

if anyone listening

01:15:52:05 – 01:15:56:07

does want some

some CV feedback, feel free to message

01:15:56:07 – 01:15:58:23

me on LinkedIn.

I can always run through your CV with you.

01:15:58:23 – 01:16:03:10

Just give you a little bit of feedback

because I did one of the CV workshops,

01:16:03:10 – 01:16:07:14

so I’m happy to get that feedback in for you.

01:16:07:16 – 01:16:09:11

But I think yep, going forward with

01:16:09:11 – 01:16:14:00

we try to raise

as much awareness as possible as we enter

01:16:14:00 – 01:16:17:08

the final few weeks of the application

01:16:17:10 – 01:16:21:10

because, you know, we have to set a

01:16:21:12 – 01:16:27:00

relatively early deadline

because firms need to take in the CVs

01:16:27:02 – 01:16:29:21

and consider the different teams

01:16:29:21 – 01:16:32:07

go through their own application process.

01:16:32:07 – 01:16:36:09

Vetting process

will then work on reasonable adjustments.

01:16:36:09 – 01:16:40:20

Have that chat about disability

and then going forward

01:16:40:22 – 01:16:41:16

and offering them a place.

01:16:41:16 – 01:16:44:22

So that needs to be done

by Feb/March time.

01:16:44:22 – 01:16:47:13

So we’ve set out our deadlines,

01:16:47:13 – 01:16:53:03

relatively early to try 

and cater to all of that.

Laura:

That’s really

good and I think that that’s really great

01:16:55:14 – 01:16:58:24

to actually go into universities

individually because I think also it’s

01:16:58:24 – 01:17:03:13

not just the employers that need

to have that mentality about hiring

01:17:03:15 – 01:17:04:09

disabled talent.

01:17:04:09 – 01:17:08:01

It’s also if that conversation,

you can start in university

01:17:08:07 – 01:17:12:01

so that when you have career advice,

when you’re talking about career

01:17:12:01 – 01:17:16:20

paths in education, then that’s already the

mentality that it’s already established

01:17:17:01 – 01:17:20:13

rather than, you know, hearing about,

you know, these employment options.

01:17:20:13 – 01:17:23:01

And then you’re thinking that’s

that’s not suitable for me.

01:17:23:01 – 01:17:26:12

But if that can start from university, before

you get to that stage

01:17:26:14 – 01:17:29:13

is also really important

that in the university themselves can

01:17:29:13 – 01:17:33:15

I guess cater their career advice

to those disabled students as well.

01:17:33:21 – 01:17:39:03

Something that I found was lacking for me

was any individual

01:17:39:05 – 01:17:43:22

support or even conversation

that would be tailored to me specifically.

01:17:43:24 – 01:17:44:21

So that’s really good that you

01:17:44:21 – 01:17:48:14

going around and raising the awareness

so that more people can know about it.

01:17:48:14 – 01:17:51:18

And even if they’re not

eligible themselves and they have a friend

01:17:51:18 – 01:17:54:18

or a family member or someone, they know,

coming up behind them that may be.

01:17:54:18 – 01:17:58:00

And so just to get that message out on

the awareness is just so great.

01:17:58:00 – 01:18:00:18

And I think it’s really amazing

that what you’re doing.

01:18:00:18 – 01:18:02:16

So thank you.

Sami:

Thank you.

01:18:03:14 – 01:18:08:01

I think also the important thing

about the talks is people with specific

01:18:08:01 – 01:18:12:13

disabilities may be apprehensive

towards applying because they may feel

01:18:12:13 – 01:18:18:06

that their disability isn’t maybe as ‘worthy’

as more severe disabilities.

01:18:18:07 – 01:18:23:01

So they may feel that

they’retaking a place from someone else,

01:18:23:01 – 01:18:27:09

but, you know, a)

there are so many spots to go around

01:18:27:09 – 01:18:31:10

and b) we cater

to a range of disabilities for a reason

01:18:31:10 – 01:18:35:24

because they’re all

01:18:36:01 – 01:18:38:04

subject to

01:18:38:04 – 01:18:42:10

institutional ableism, 

workplace ableism, the subject,

01:18:42:10 – 01:18:43:16

of those barriers

01:18:43:16 – 01:18:47:15

that prevent them from

from gaining experience in the workplace.

01:18:47:15 – 01:18:53:09

So the criteria is there with the reason

and that those are eligible

01:18:53:11 – 01:18:54:24

more than worthy of applying.

01:18:54:24 – 01:19:01:03

And so we wouldn’t

want anyone to be discouraged or feel as if

01:19:01:05 – 01:19:04:11

really to feel uncomfortable in applying,

because as long as you meet

01:19:04:11 – 01:19:07:21

the eligibility criteria,

you’re more than worthy of applying.

01:19:07:21 – 01:19:11:13

So that’s what we trying to reiterate

within our tours.

01:19:11:13 – 01:19:16:22

And every time we talk to prospective

interns, really.

Laura:

You know, it’s very important.

01:19:18:00 – 01:19:20:07

We always say,

you know, every disability is valid

01:19:20:07 – 01:19:22:06

and every different type is valid.

01:19:22:06 – 01:19:24:04

That’s also a representation of society.

01:19:24:04 – 01:19:28:09

There’s so many different types of disability

and every single one is as valid.

01:19:28:09 – 01:19:31:09

And every single one, no matter the

01:19:31:09 – 01:19:37:02

the kind of severity of it,

it’s still as valid and still,

01:19:37:02 – 01:19:38:03

no matter who it is,

01:19:38:03 – 01:19:41:22

they still face a certain barrier in society

because of that health condition

01:19:42:00 – 01:19:42:22

or that disability

That’s really, really good point to make sure that 

everyone in the disability community

is included because we face enough

discrimination in the outside community.

So it’s really good to make sure that even

our own space

01:19:53:18 – 01:19:58:15

within the community all inclusive

and don’t discriminate against anybody.

Sami: 

Yeah, and I

01:19:59:13 – 01:20:03:11

think I don’t want there

to be this exclusivity around the program,

01:20:03:11 – 01:20:08:10

because as a foundation,

we try to be as inclusive as possible.

01:20:08:10 – 01:20:11:09

Exclusivity

isn’t something we practice at all.

01:20:11:09 – 01:20:13:03

You know, we do

01:20:13:03 – 01:20:17:21

cater to those furthest from opportunity,

but that doesn’t mean we’re trying to be

01:20:17:23 – 01:20:18:23

exclusive in this.

01:20:18:23 – 01:20:22:21

And I think, you know,

even if you aren’t

01:20:22:23 – 01:20:27:09

eligibility criteria, that’s listed,

if you feel as if you’ve been subjected to

01:20:27:09 – 01:20:31:01

physical or social barriers to employment,

we still encourage you to apply.

01:20:31:01 – 01:20:34:06

We want anyone that feels

they would benefit, who feels

01:20:34:06 – 01:20:37:06

that they’re eligible in a genuine way to apply.

01:20:37:07 – 01:20:39:17

So we’re not being exclusive at all.

01:20:39:17 – 01:20:43:21

We want to try and include

as many students who have felt

01:20:43:21 – 01:20:49:12

difficulties due to their disability 

or health condition to apply.

01:20:49:14 – 01:20:50:07

That’s really good.

01:20:50:07 – 01:20:53:18

It’s really important that that is such

a great message that you’re also sharing.

01:20:53:22 – 01:20:57:10

So for anyone who’s interested,

who would like to hear more information

01:20:57:12 – 01:21:00:12

or would like to apply,

where can they find more information?

01:21:00:13 – 01:21:05:15

How can they follow you on social media

is just a bit of an overview of that.

01:21:05:17 – 01:21:06:03

Okay.

01:21:06:03 – 01:21:10:11

So I guess in the first instance,

if you want more information,

01:21:10:11 – 01:21:15:21

just go to 10000InternsFoundation.com,

01:21:15:23 – 01:21:18:06

with information, but the Black interns

program on the able interns,

01:21:18:06 – 01:21:20:14

with information, but the Black interns

program on the able interns,

01:21:20:16 – 01:21:23:12

by the way, for black disabled student,

01:21:23:12 – 01:21:27:16

you are able to apply for both so you

essentially double your chances

01:21:27:16 – 01:21:30:23

of getting an internship, which is great

01:21:31:00 – 01:21:34:07

because you know, they do face a compunded,

01:21:34:09 – 01:21:38:08

I guess, compounded barriers

to entry being black and disabled.

01:21:38:08 – 01:21:42:10

So we like to

open up opportunities to both

01:21:42:12 – 01:21:45:12

programs. So

01:21:45:12 – 01:21:46:11

I think beyond

01:21:46:11 – 01:21:50:08

focusing on specifically 10,000 Able Interns,

01:21:50:10 – 01:21:54:23

we were able to find the information

on the website, there are FAQs,

01:21:55:00 – 01:21:58:05

there’s an information

pamphlet for candidates and firms,

01:21:58:07 – 01:22:02:08

for anyone listening that may want

to incorporate their firm into the program.

01:22:02:10 – 01:22:04:05

There’s information for both sides.

01:22:04:05 – 01:22:07:05

And then the link is very straightforward.

01:22:07:08 – 01:22:10:16

And if you do have any difficulties,

you can always email.

01:22:10:18 – 01:22:13:18

I think it’s general@10000ableinterns.com

01:22:13:24 – 01:22:16:14

and also

01:22:16:14 – 01:22:20:19

general@10000foundation.com

Or you can message me directly on LinkedIn

01:22:20:20 – 01:22:26:02

if you like always see to issue

and make sure you’re in the right place.

01:22:26:04 – 01:22:30:16

Social media with 10,000 Interns

01:22:30:18 – 01:22:34:08

on Instagram.

01:22:34:10 – 01:22:35:12

I don’t know.

01:22:35:12 – 01:22:39:06

I don’t know if on Twitter we might be,

but I don’t use Twitter myself.

01:22:39:08 – 01:22:40:02

So take a look.

01:22:40:02 – 01:22:43:02

If we’re not there, then we’re no there.

01:22:43:08 – 01:22:46:08

But I know on Instagram we’re

01:22:46:08 – 01:22:50:04

10,000 Able Interns,

LinkedIn we’re 10,000 Able Interns

01:22:50:06 – 01:22:53:13

I think maybe I think we’re on Tik Tok,

01:22:53:13 – 01:22:55:17

but we’re not really active on TikTok

for the moment.

01:22:55:17 – 01:22:59:15

We’re still trying

to get to grips with TikTok.

01:22:59:15 – 01:23:04:00

So we’re 10,000Able Interns 

on every platform

01:23:04:02 – 01:23:07:02

and also 10,000 intern foundation.

01:23:07:04 – 01:23:11:00

Just, you know, just that’s our handle

And then that 10,000 Black Interns

01:23:11:01 – 01:23:15:02

if you’re interested

in our black interns program

01:23:15:04 – 01:23:18:04

and that’s it really

when it comes to social media I mean

01:23:18:07 – 01:23:21:07

you can follow the progress opportunities

01:23:21:07 – 01:23:24:14

and just engage with the community in general.

01:23:24:16 – 01:23:25:03

Great. Thank you.

01:23:25:03 – 01:23:27:05

And I’ll I’ll link to everything

in the episode description

01:23:27:05 – 01:23:30:06

so that anyone who’s listening can

then also find the direct links that way.

01:23:30:11 – 01:23:32:03

So it’s easy, but that’s really great.

01:23:32:03 – 01:23:36:06

And thank you so much for spending

your time this afternoon to chat to us.

01:23:36:08 – 01:23:40:08

And I think it’s really important, you know, Casual Ableism

on our main Instagram account.

01:23:40:08 – 01:23:43:08

We highlight that you could have

negative experiences of,

01:23:43:09 – 01:23:46:09

you know, Abelism, but

it was also really important to talk about

01:23:46:12 – 01:23:50:01

programs, initiatives

like the 10,000 Able Interns are actually doing

01:23:50:03 – 01:23:53:12

real positive work to try to end the ableism as well.

01:23:53:12 – 01:23:56:23

So thank you for coming on and talking,

great conversation

01:23:56:23 – 01:24:00:06

about the variety of topics, that I think that

that people are going to find

01:24:00:06 – 01:24:04:22

it really, really useful and hopefully

it’s inspired some people to apply.

01:24:04:24 – 01:24:09:04

Take that leap into the into them into

the world of internships the workplace.

01:24:09:06 – 01:24:09:18

Thank you.

01:24:09:18 – 01:24:15:11

I really enjoyed the talk today and yeah I mean

if you’re looking to apply just go for it

01:24:15:11 – 01:24:19:17

there should be nothing holding you back

If you do have any apprehensions like.

01:24:19:17 – 01:24:23:23

I said just feel free

to reach out on LinkedIn and

01:24:24:00 – 01:24:25:11

and I think.

01:24:25:11 – 01:24:29:06

just go for it really.

01:24:29:08 – 01:24:32:17

I mean, there’s always a chance

to be rejected with everything.

01:24:32:17 – 01:24:34:04

But you never know until you try.

01:24:34:04 – 01:24:39:00

And I think you’ll never succeed

until you try, if you if you are apprehensive

01:24:39:00 – 01:24:42:18

and you do shy away from opportunity,

then you’re really limiting yourself.

01:24:42:18 – 01:24:47:20

Then I think we’re all capable of so much,

but you may as well go for it and see

01:24:47:22 – 01:24:51:13

kind of explore

the limitations of what you can achieve.

01:24:51:15 – 01:24:55:00

Because I think you’ll you’re capable

of so much more than than, you know.

01:24:55:02 – 01:24:58:02

So I say just go for it

and see what comes of it.

01:24:58:04 – 01:25:02:23

And I like to give credit the whole team

01:25:02:23 – 01:25:06:23

because we have

maybe I don’t know exactly now,

01:25:06:23 – 01:25:10:23

but we have around 12 or 14 employees

that work so hard on the program.

01:25:11:02 – 01:25:13:20

But on the overall foundation each day.

01:25:13:20 – 01:25:16:07

And I know Rebecca was supposed to be here

today.

01:25:16:07 – 01:25:18:00

I know she’s gutted to not be here.

01:25:18:00 – 01:25:20:07

I think she was really excited so

01:25:20:07 – 01:25:23:19

it was definitely something important

that would have pulled her away of going

01:25:23:19 – 01:25:26:22

from the opportunity

to to be involved in the podcast.

01:25:26:22 – 01:25:28:23

But I’m sure she’ll be back another day.

01:25:28:23 – 01:25:32:20

And she was definitely really disapointed not to be here,

01:25:32:22 – 01:25:40:00

but I hope I proved to be

a worthy replacement on my own and,

01:25:40:02 – 01:25:42:14

and yeah, like I said,

01:25:42:14 – 01:25:48:06

if anyone has any kind of apprehension

or needs any help or even if it’s outside

01:25:48:06 – 01:25:51:06

of the program and the CV

01:25:51:08 – 01:25:54:19

and a review or any advice

when it comes to an interview

01:25:54:19 – 01:25:59:06

that’s coming up, just reach out to myself

01:25:59:08 – 01:26:01:12

we have a range of resources and expertise

01:26:01:12 – 01:26:04:12

that can help you in a way.

01:26:04:16 – 01:26:08:06

That’s really good to anyone

who is apprehensive in taking that step.

01:26:08:08 – 01:26:11:15

I think the fact that this is such a

a sort of a safe

01:26:11:17 – 01:26:15:03

way to do that because of the fact

it is for people disabilities.

01:26:15:03 – 01:26:15:21

That’s what that is.

01:26:15:21 – 01:26:17:07

It’s just feels like

such a safe environment

01:26:17:07 – 01:26:20:01

that it’s not going to be,

you know, going to be judged or anything.

01:26:20:01 – 01:26:21:12

So I think this is a real one of those real opportunities where it is

it safe to take that risk

and it is safe to to do to apply

because you’re not going to lose that.

You can only gain from it.

And even if you don’t get this round,

there will be another round next year

I assume people can always apply to.

Yeah, the great work from the whole team.

And I just thank you so much for given the opportunity to the disabled students and people

who are looking for internships. That’s really great.

Sami:

Thank you. And I think just to finish really quickly and I think that’s a really good point, you don’t get the opportunity this year, you can always apply next year. And likewise, on the flipside, if you do get the opportunity, you can always apply again next year, whether it’s the same industry or you’ve you’ve applied to finance. And I if you want to try communications and branding next year or marketing, if you applied for the completely different next year and broaden the horizons of your experience. So I wouldn’t be discouraged if you don’t get an opportunity this year, because the size of our program is expanding exponentially year on year. So there’ll be more and more opportunities as the years go by and just keep applying year on year. And even if you graduate we’re open to recent graduates, I believe that the 2024 program is eligible to students that graduated in 2020 or beyond, there’s kind of a four year kind of backlog, if you like. I don’t know the word, backlog for students that can apply. So even you apply year on year and you don’t get something or we didn’t get the right opportunity for you. You just keep applying and you know, it will be experience as well.

Laura:

That’s good to know that anyone

that anyone does got a chance

this year that’s really good

they will be able to other chances and

yeah well thank you so much and it’s been really great to talk to you

and I’m sure there will be future opportunities with Rebecca as well.

Sami: 

Yeah, hopefully. Thank you so much.

Laura:

Thanks Bye.

We hope you enjoyed this episode and our discussion with Sami Dar, co-founder if 10,000 Able Interns. If you’re interested in their programmes, check out the links in this episode description to learn more about 10,000 Able Interns, and the 10,000 Intern Foundation in general.